08/29/2001: Daily Press Briefing Excerpts

QUESTION: Could you add anything to this now breaking story that is on the Palestinians? They seem to have some agreement, a truce agreement, but it seems to apply only to that town, Beit Jala. Is that something you know more than the accounts we have?

MR. BOUCHER: I don't think I know more, nor can I actually confirm some of the accounts that have been out in the press. I would just say that what we do know is that they have been engaged in fairly intensive discussions with the objective of stopping the shooting and leading to a withdrawal of Israeli troops from Beit Jala.

We certainly encourage those discussions. We further hope that that can lead to closer security cooperation between the two parties, which, as we have always said, is a key element in ending the violence.

QUESTION: There was a notion -- maybe it's still out there, maybe this is evidence of it -- of sort of a rolling cease-fire, a gathering of an end to hostilities. I haven't been here the last few days, but I wonder, does State see that as a promising -- are you hopeful this can lead to bigger things?

MR. BOUCHER: I think of it a couple ways. We support any steps to end the violence. That is good, one, for it's own sake so that people stop being harmed and killed, and second of all to get us on the path of implementation of the Mitchell Committee recommendations. So we would support any steps that can move forward in stopping the violence and going down that path.

At the same time, we do reiterate that the Mitchell Committee recommendations and that path is the path to get from the violence to an easing of the situation for the people who live there, and then back to a path of negotiations, and that ultimately is where we have to be. Stopping the violence is a way of getting there.

QUESTION: It seems that the Belgian Foreign Minister did speak to the Secretary yesterday, eventually. Can you give us a readout on their conversation? Did Mr. Powell respond to his suggestion of a joint initiative of some kind?

MR. BOUCHER: The Secretary did talk to the Belgian Foreign Minister yesterday. The Belgian Foreign Minister did mention the talks and discussions he is having with others. I would say fundamentally what the call was about was the situation in the Middle East. And then the Secretary and he discussed how to work in close coordination with the United Nations, with the European Union, with Russia, with Norway and other interested parties to help move the parties to the implementation of the Mitchell Committee recommendations. So that remains the focus of our efforts, and we think of the efforts of the European Union as well.

QUESTION: Did the Secretary toss into the pot any American suggestions to reach that end?

MR. BOUCHER: First of all, I don't think there was any particular concrete suggestion from the Belgian Foreign Minister in that regard. That is the direction that they talked about. The Secretary made clear to him that we would continue to work toward this goal, that we were looking to use every opportunity to continue our discussions with the parties to urge them to go in this direction.

The Secretary spoke today to Chairman Arafat, this morning, and they discussed the situation. Particularly with regard to Beit Jala, the Secretary noted that we had been pressing for Israeli withdrawal from there, and they talked about the news. But again, sort of urging Chairman Arafat to help get back on track with the security cooperation that we think is so important to ending the violence and getting on to the Mitchell Committee recommendations, urging Chairman Arafat to do everything he can to stop the violence, to tone down the rhetoric as we move forward, and as we move forward to upcoming events like the UN General Assembly session, the UN General Assembly, when a lot of people will be talking about this, too.

QUESTION: Richard, it's kind of noticeable that the only cases where the Israelis tried to permanently reoccupy parts of Palestinian areas, the US has seemed to really put its foot down. Is this something of a red line for you? I know you've criticized other Israeli actions, but is there something particularly objectionable you find about that when they talk about staying in Palestinian areas indefinitely, as they did here?

MR. BOUCHER: I think we've seen incursions before, and I think we have criticized them in the same terms. Yes, there is a fundamental issue here, and that is trying to reverse agreements and understandings that have been made in the past. What we are trying to do now is to implement the agreements and understandings that we have now. So we do object to incursions on that basis.

But I would have to say that the Israelis, while there have been different things said on different people's parts when these incursions have taken place, I think we have taken a view that they certainly should not be permanent, and that none of them have been so far. And that is what the Israelis often say as well.

QUESTION: Has the Secretary talked today to Sharon or have you had communication through the Ambassador?

MR. BOUCHER: We have had communications through our representatives on the ground and always do on a sort of constant basis with people, with leaders on both sides. The Secretary has not at this point talked to Prime Minister Sharon.

QUESTION: Does he plan to?

MR. BOUCHER: He might, yes.

QUESTION: Could I get back to the question before that? Could we be more specific about what a violation of an agreement would be? Do you mean it's a violation for Israel to reoccupy permanently territory that they have given the Palestinians control over, or do you mean that it is a violation for Israel to go back into that territory to try to restore order? What makes it a violation: holding on to it or even stepping your toe into it?

MR. BOUCHER: (a) I don't think I used the word "violation." And second of all, I am not here to try to define or report violations of things like that. I think we have made our policy position clear in the past. I reiterated that today, but I don't have any expansion to make or any judicial judgments to make.

QUESTION: Well, let me, please, because the text will show what you said. I seem to recall you just said you don't want the parties to reverse understandings. What do you understand the understanding to be -- that Israel can't go in to restore order, or Israel shan't go in to take permanent repossession?

MR. BOUCHER: The understandings are in a higher and long history of agreements in the Middle East, and I stand by those agreements which have been signed and ratified by the governments.

QUESTION: Richard, you are implicitly criticizing Israel as flaunting or flouting an agreement, and I don't know what it is you are accusing them -- what it is you think they -- how they have misbehaved -- by going in or by holding on?

MR. BOUCHER: Barry, look, I didn't start this. I was asked a specific question. (Laughter.)

QUESTION: And you answered it.

MR. BOUCHER: I was asked a specific question about why we always object when there is a sign that an incursion is taking place that it might become permanent. Okay?

QUESTION: All right.

MR. BOUCHER: I was giving a response to that question. That is what I -- I am not trying to define an entire universe of potential violations of previous agreements.

QUESTION: I'm talking about things on the ground. But you said permanent, so I will take that as permanent.

MR. BOUCHER: That was the question. That is the context that I answered.

QUESTION: You think -- you see incursions as -- you say there is a fundamental issue here. Because you see a fundamental issue here, does that mean that your response and the message you've sent to the Israelis is different than it would be otherwise? I mean, is there something --

MR. BOUCHER: No, no.

QUESTION: Did you do something yesterday to persuade the Israelis to withdraw which you haven't done --

MR. BOUCHER: Jonathan, can we stop for a moment? Here is the question that was asked. The question that was asked was, in permanent incursions and taking over territory, why do we object to that? I answered that question. Here is not what's going on in the Middle East. Here is Washington. Here is this briefing room. Here is that particular question. That is the only thing we talked about in that context.

I don't want to be construed as somehow saying that the Beit Jala situation was an attempt to reverse previous agreements. I didn't say that. I was asked why we object to the incursions that might be permanent, and I said so.

QUESTION: The Secretary spoke to Chairman Arafat. Who called who?

MR. BOUCHER: The Secretary called the Chairman.

QUESTION: And why did he call the Chairman?

MR. BOUCHER: To talk to him about the situation in the Middle East.

QUESTION: Was there something more specific we can -- is there a reason why he called today?

MR. BOUCHER: He keeps in touch periodically. He talks to him from time to time, wanted to talk about the particular situation today and to urge him once again to get back on track with the security cooperation and to urge him once again to take steps to stop the violence.

QUESTION: Richard, can we draw any conclusions by the fact that he's spoken to one side and not the other?

MR. BOUCHER: No.

QUESTION: Do you know if the call happened before Arafat spoke to Peres? And if it did, did the Secretary tell Arafat that perhaps it might be a good idea to speak to the Israeli Foreign Minister?

MR. BOUCHER: I don't know when Arafat talked to Peres. This was about 10:30, 11 o'clock our time, so I don't know.

QUESTION: Okay. Well, if you don't know, do you know if the Secretary --

MR. BOUCHER: I don't know -- sorry -- when Arafat talked to Peres.

QUESTION: Right. But then do you know if the Secretary said, "Perhaps it would be a good idea for you, Mr. Arafat, to talk to an Israeli senior official"?

MR. BOUCHER: I don't know if he encouraged a particular phone call. I do know that he strongly encouraged the idea of security cooperation, a return of cooperation between the two sides to improve the security situation.

QUESTION: Has this Administration warned Israel in the past, in recent days, about the use of US weapons against the Palestinians and that you might have to notify Congress about specific violations and laws governing such usage?

MR. BOUCHER: I don't really have anything new to say than what we discussed yesterday on that subject.

QUESTION: So you're saying that no one has warmed Israel about --

MR. BOUCHER: No, I'm saying I don't have anything new to say than what was said yesterday on the subject.

QUESTION: Now, what you said yesterday, though, was that there was an understanding, that the Israelis understood and they knew about this letter.

MR. BOUCHER: What I said yesterday was the Israelis are quite clear and understand what our laws are, that the subject does come up from time to time -- I don't know if it has come up recently, frankly -- and that we do monitor the situation but that we have not made any decisions or determinations about reporting to Congress under our law.

QUESTION: It has come up from time to time in your discussions with Israelis, you mean?

MR. BOUCHER: Yes. I said that yesterday.

QUESTION: Did Arafat bring it up that they're hammering us with American weapons and you ought to make them stop? Does he say something like that?

MR. BOUCHER: You can ask Mr. Arafat if he --

QUESTION: No, no, come on. You gave us somewhat of an account of the Arafat --

MR. BOUCHER: I don't think I'm obligated to give you everything that Arafat says. That's not my job as the spokesman. You can ask Chairman Arafat what his views are.

QUESTION: No, but our job is to try to discern as much as we can from this important conversation, so we're asking if Arafat made a point of use of American equipment.

MR. BOUCHER: I don't know.

QUESTION: Okay.

MR. BOUCHER: And I don't think I'm obligated to speak on his behalf.

QUESTION: I didn't say you were obligated.

MR. BOUCHER: Okay.

QUESTION: Richard, but on the arms and your talks and discussions with the Israelis, I mean, it is relatively important to know whether this is a subject that has been raised in talks with Israeli officials in recent days, and I am sure you appreciate why it is. And there has been over the past couple of days several senior Israeli officials in town meeting with senior US officials, so I mean it is --

MR. BOUCHER: I don't know if it has come up in recent days, as I said. I am sure, first of all, the Israelis are very familiar with our law, and it comes up in every weapons transfer contract; it comes up in every discussion of the conditions for transfer of our arms. So it is something that has been around for a long time that they are very familiar with. How often it comes up in sort of policy-level discussions I don't think I could say, but I will look into it and see if we have something.

QUESTION: Did the Secretary discuss with Mr. Arafat the threats against American interests raised by -- issued by some Palestinians in Damascus?

MR. BOUCHER: I don't know.

QUESTION: On that, Mr. Taher has now apparently clarified what his remarks that he made on Monday, saying that he meant only economic interests, and talking about a boycott. Is the US satisfied with that explanation?

MR. BOUCHER: We don't think threats are justified, and as I said yesterday, we would urge the Syrian Government to make sure the people who are located on their territory are not threatening us.

QUESTION: Richard, I'm sorry to go back to this again, but you said it came up from time to time. Can you at least tell us whether it has come up since last September, in fact, during this Intifada period?

MR. BOUCHER: The question of the conditions for the transfer of American weaponry? I'm sure it has. What I just don't know is to be able to tell you at what level. I mean, every weapons contract that we would sign with the Israelis would have these clauses in them because it is the standard condition that has always been around. So every discussion that might ensue, or signing, would have this in it.

QUESTION: Are there any efforts to, in effect, through other governments to quell incitement, I guess, to riot? For instance, Carlos the Jackal has spoken from his prison cell in Paris, calling on support for this uprising and also against the United States. Are you talking to NGOs and other type groups?

MR. BOUCHER: I don't know about the specific statement. I would say that I think there is an effort in the international community to try to do what we can to quell the violence, quell the incitement, especially by working with the parties. And there are a number of people in the international community that are trying to do that. Various foreign ministers visit from time to time. People are on the phone in contact. They see visitors like Chairman Arafat or the Israeli Prime Minister, and I think there is generally -- there is coordination among members of the international community to try to get the parties to take the steps necessary to stop the violence.

QUESTION: Can I ask a question on the Middle East? Don't you think it has been told even to Chairman Arafat that, in order to have peace in the Middle East, the terrorist activities must stop first? How much the US or Secretary is putting this pressure on Arafat or on the Palestinians that terrorist activities must stop before any real peace can come in the Middle East?

MR. BOUCHER: Stopping the violence has been a consistent and constant refrain from us. We have looked at various specific and practical ways of doing that. We have negotiated with the parties. We have worked with the parties. We have helped them host meetings with each other to try to do that. And the Secretary has made the points himself in his meetings and his trips to the Middle East.

QUESTION: What is the UN role, I mean, in this, really in the Middle East conflict? We don't hear much?

MR. BOUCHER: The UN role? We coordinate closely, obviously, with Kofi Annan. He has been out there. He has done some excellent work out there in various regards. And that Secretary General Annan has often been very instrumental in the situation in the region. At the same time, as you know, we haven't encouraged any Security Council resolutions or other sort of steps like that.