Interview With Dnevni Avaz, Nezavisne Novine and Oslobodjenje

We have great hope that this country is on the right course. I’ve been here many times over the years. There’s no question that significant progress has been made in every respect. And there’s no question that further reforms can be made, defense reform, the police reform, further economic reforms. Most importantly, the major remaining war criminals can be taken to The Hague and put on trial, Ratko Mladic, Radovan Karadzic, Mr. Gotovina of Croatia. There’s no reason why this country and this region cannot then have a long-term association with the European Union. And, speaking as a member of NATO, we would hope that your country would someday then, after these reforms, apply for NATO membership and come into our Alliance. That has to be the future of this region, because the rest of Europe enjoys security, prosperity, peace, because they’ve overcome that past. And it’s now time for people of this region to be given the opportunity to do the same thing.

We met with the Tri-Presidency this morning. We met with the Defense Minister. We walked around and saw the changes of the city. It’s a beautiful city. We saw many of the changes that have occurred over the last few years. And I think that there’s a lot of reason to be hopeful about the future. One issue that remains that is still in our eyes, and I’m sure in yours, very difficult, is the issue of these war criminals. We just watched tonight again this video from 1995. These young men who were innocent civilians and gunned down and murdered by the Scorpions, by the paramilitary forces. You can’t watch the thing and not be shocked at the brutality of those Serb soldiers. And you know who ordered this, that whole offensive in summer of 1995, the spiritual leader of all of this ethnic cleansing and murder was Karadzic, and the man who gave orders to kill the 8000 men and women in Srebrenica was Mladic. And so we haven’t forgotten in my country the importance of July 11 and the memorial. We intend to send a senior-level American delegation to be with the people of this country here on July 11 at Srebrenica. And we certainly haven’t forgotten the fact that these war criminals have been living freely for ten years after having killed so many people, and have said so to the Serb government in Belgrade and to Minister Ivanic today. We said please send a message to the authorities in Banja Luka, the Serb authorities; and we’ll give this message to Belgrade – we’ll be there on Thursday. It’s their responsibility to find Mladic and Karadzic. It’s their responsibility to send them to The Hague. And until they do that, they cannot have a normal relationship with the United States, or NATO, or the European Union. There’s no possibility of Serbia coming into the NATO alliance, the Partnership for Peace, until they turn Mladic over. There’s no possibility of a normal relationship with Banja Luka, until Karadzic and Mladic are imprisoned. And that’s an important message for them to bring up. They are the ones responsible, and so they have to take care of the responsibilities.

The last thing I want to say is that we expressed our great appreciation to the Tri-Presidency for the fact your country has sent your soldiers to Iraq, and we truly appreciate this. We need this expertise in explosive ordnances, and it’s a great symbolic gesture on your part, because the United States tried to be of service to you when our military came in, NATO, in August/September 1995 to help end the war. And we sent a lot of young Americans here as part of SFOR for nine years. We’re very proud of what we did to help your country, and now you are helping us out now in a very challenging situation for us in Iraq. And the symbolism of a country that was formerly very fractured, your country, among ethnic groups, now sending young Bosnian Croats, Bosniaks and Bosnians Serbs to Iraq, to a fractured country, where the Shi’a and the Sunni and the Kurds have to undergo now what you’d just begun ten years ago, learning how to live together in peace, learning how to govern together, and learning how to be involved in the same government. That’s an enormously powerful symbol. And so we thank you for that, we thank you for the support you’ve given our peacekeeping forces on the ground in Iraq.

And the Ambassador just wished to say something.

AMBASSADOR MCELHANEY: I just want to underline that the Under Secretary met with the Tri-Presidency as well as the Foreign Minister and the Prime Minister, Mr. Terzic and Mr. Ivanic.

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: And I was happy to see Prime Minister Terzic, because I had met with him at the State Department a couple of weeks back. Happy to answer any questions you have. Ladies first.

QUESTION: You just said that you hope and you see that this country’s on the right path toward Euro-Atlantic integration. However, we all have been witnesses here that recently Republika Srpska has made major obstacles, for example, the police reform. And police reform is one of the main preconditions for membership in the EU. How do you comment on that particular issue?

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: No, I agree with that thought. The Ambassador knows far more than I do, is far more expert and may want to say a few words as well. From my vantage point, having followed the situation and talked to Foreign Minister Ivanic today and the Tri-Presidency and the Prime Minister, we’re very disappointed that the police reforms have not been completed. In our view, the Republika Srpska authorities have, on a number of issues, been obstructionist. I mentioned the war criminals issue, where they "have not been informed." Surely they have some knowledge, the people in Banja Luka who are supporting Radovan Karadzic, who might be protecting him, they have the responsibility under Dayton. But more important, they have a moral responsibility to all the people of this country to use that information to have them arrested. And they haven’t done that. So they bear a large share of the responsibility on that question.

AMBASSADOR MCELHANEY: I would just like to say, in terms of reforms across the board, as the Under Secretary has said, we haven’t seen progress that we expect to see. We spent a lot of money on police reform. We’re the major contributor for police reform; and, as you well know, our involvement in ICTY is very deep, not just our military but our diplomatic work on this issue and support for the ICTY. So, these are things that we’re going to continue to press on, and obviously we talked about them today and the Under Secretary discussed them with the leadership of the government.

QUESTION: In the ten years since the Dayton Accords were signed, it seems that Republika Srpska is the only institution, I do think, that does not see any need for any change of the Dayton Peace Accords. Can you, as the Americans that you are, if you will, godfathers of the Dayton Peace Accords, can you apply any pressure or force on anybody to sit down and talk about these changes that are obviously, more than obviously, necessary when it comes to Dayton?

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Well, I think it requires enlightened leadership, leaders who will recognize that the world is changing very dramatically, Europe is changing; and, if you look around at your neighbors and look at all the countries, Croatia, Macedonia, Romania, Greece and Slovenia, and look farther north to the Baltic countries, all these countries have made tremendous change and reform over the last 10 to 15 years because they understand that to be competitive economically, to join NATO in the EU and to have foreign investment, to have peace and security, you have to open yourself up to the world, you have to face the past, you have to take responsibility for the mistakes you’ve made. This is true of any country; it’s true of my own country. You have to change, to be willing to work and, if the Bosnian Serbs think that they can stop the world, not change, not face their responsibilities on the war crimes issue, not cooperate with the others in this country for defense reform change or police reform, they’re only going to hurt themselves obviously, and their leaders will not be serving their own people. And, I think – I just spent eight years living in Europe – I think the most dynamic – it’s a very dynamic continent – and people have to be open to change. I sense that there are a lot of people in Bosnia opened up to want a better future. The leaders have to want it, and in Banja Luka they have a lot to think about.

QUESTION: You have said that you will or have sent a message to Banja Luka and Belgrade that it’s their responsibility to apprehend and arrest Karadzic and Mladic. Is there any responsibility of NATO, in NATO’s direction, I mean, the United States is a member of NATO? Is there a responsibility when it comes to NATO soldiers for not apprehending these individuals? I mean, it is a bit difficult to believe that ten years have passed, and these two individuals have not been apprehended.

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: There is certainly a responsibility that NATO and all of us have to help find these two individuals. And we have been trying. But, I think you see in the case of Osama bin Laden, as well as these two individuals, if people have money, if people have protection, if they have individuals in the country like this and you are willing to hide them, then people can hide from the authorities. Not forever. Sooner or later they’re going to be apprehended. But they can be successful for a certain period of time. So, we have a responsibility, and we take that responsibility very seriously, and they have to be lucky every single day. We just have to be fortunate one day, the day we find them. But the people who have a greater responsibility than NATO are the people who signed the Dayton Accords on November 21, 1995. They took an oath that they would adhere to the war crimes provisions, that they would turn criminals over to the Tribunal. And the Bosnian Serbs have failed, as has the Serb government, to do that. They have a greater responsibility.

It’s also quite apparent to us that the authorities in Banja Luka ought to have some knowledge of who is protecting these people, and who is providing money and who is part of that network. And we believe that there are elements in the Serb military, in Serbia-Montenegro, who know where General Mladic is. In fact, we believe that he’s been protected by the Serb military for a number of years. So let’s face it. The greater responsibility rests with those officials. And we sent them a very clear message. They don’t have any hope of better relationship with NATO until they exercise their responsibility for this.

AMBASSADOR MCELHANEY: I would just add one point here to what the Under Secretary said. Some months ago, after hearing since 1995 that there was no knowledge of these people, seven people were picked up. Now how did that happen?

QUESTION: There is quite frequently the thesis out there that there’s a terrorist threat coming out of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Quite recently there was an official from the RS, the RS police director, Mr. Dragomir Andan (who made these allegations). Does your government have any official knowledge of these alleged terrorist threats coming from Bosnia?

AMBASSADOR MCELHANEY: If you permit me, I think that I know something about this. I saw the statements that the police chief, Mr. Andan, made. And my reaction is the following, I think that terrorism is a world-wide phenomenon. We’re conducting a war against terrorism in the world, and any information that is helpful to that process doesn’t necessarily get announced to the world. It should be used by the officials who have the capacity to do something about it if there indeed is a threat. We work very closely here in Bosnia with police and law enforcement officials, and we know that there is a capacity here, if there is any credence to these threats, that something will be done about it.

QUESTION: If I can just follow up, please. So that means that the U.S. Government trusts or has confidence in Bosnian authorities when it comes to this matter, this particular matter.

AMBASSADOR MCELHANEY: I don’t want to go further into detail about this. But I think that any useful information along these lines will be looked at carefully, and there are ways that it can be shared with other governments and other international institutions to stop terrorism.

QUESTION: There are six, of whom four at least are Bosnian citizens, individuals who are detained at Guantanamo base. The wife of one of them on Sunday organized a protest in front of the American Embassy, which is quite natural for a wife to ask for the release of her husband. But now since the Bosnian government has shown more willingness to, for example with the sending of this unit to Iraq, is there a way to make this a bit more transparent for the sake of these good relations between the two countries? For example, people here do not know what is going on; it is not transparent. This is a secret, this whole Guantanamo issue. Can it be explained to the people here? If they’re guilty, they’re guilty. If they’re not, can they be brought before a panel or judge, before others, and so on?

AMBASSADOR MCELHANEY: I would just say that we take note of this point, and we take this all very seriously. As you know, six Algerians were taken to Guantanamo – four of whom are Bosnian citizens – some time ago. They, as was made known here, are under serious suspicion, and that is what they are doing there. They will be well treated, and there are processes in place to ensure that they will be well treated. When we’re finished with this investigation, I would expect that they would be sent back to their countries.

MODERATOR: Last question.

QUESTION: In the past days and months, there were rumors out there about a new plan that the United States had designed for the Balkans, that is, for Kosovo and Bosnia-Herzegovina. If there is such a plan, what does it envision?

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: This is a good question because it brings us back to the beginning of the interview. And that is that it seems to us in the United States that all the peoples in the Balkans have a major opportunity to make a lot of progress to ensure a more secure and peaceful future, and a future where your part of Europe is connected with the rest of Europe. But to do that, you’ve got to overcome the recent past. In the case of your country, we have two significant anniversaries this year, Srebrenica, the commemoration of that horrible massacre, and also the Dayton Accords. And you’re going to find that there’s a great deal of interest in your country because of these two events. And my country is signaling through the trip of this delegation. We want to signal our commitment to have good relations with your country. We’ll help you to overcome these problems and help you secure a future working with NATO and with the European Union.

In Kosovo the challenge is much greater, in Kosovo the status quo has been maintained, the situation has been frozen in place. That was in June of 1999, since the end of the NATO military offensive against the Serbs. And in that place, there’s no question that the international community, led by the United Nations, wants to undertake an effort to have negotiations to determine the final the final status of Kosovo. And it’s not up to us as outsiders to say what the future of Kosovo should be. That’s up to the Kosovar Albanians and Kosovar Serbs. It’s up to the Serb government as well. And it has to be a negotiation. We’ll support such a negotiation under UN leadership. And so, 2005 is a year of change for Kosovo. And perhaps Serbia has the greatest opportunity. Serbia is a very important country in this part of the world. Serbia is a country that’s also afflicted by its past. And even this videotape shows, by some of the atrocious and appalling acts carried out by the Serb military during the war, where many people in this country were victims. If Serbia can face that, if Serbia can find Mr. Karadzic and Mr. Mladic and send them to The Hague, Serbia can have a new beginning. And then this entire region would be positioned to work with your European neighbors in a much better way for your future. That’s the opportunity we want to see. The United States is going to maintain a very active diplomacy and diplomatic representation here, and we’ll maintain our military commitments that we’ve made, our NATO military headquarters here in Sarajevo, which is primarily led by the United States. And certainly the American military commitment in Kosovo. There’s no question that the United States has credibility in this region; we have an interest in helping the countries in this region, and so by this trip we are signaling very strongly our intention to remain very strongly involved in this region.