Coffee Break at the State Department: U.S. Ambassador to Russia

Bureau of Public Affairs
Washington, DC
January 04, 2007

Conversation with U.S. Ambassador to Russia:
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MR. MCCORMACK: Ambassador Bill Burns, welcome to Coffee Break at the State Department.

AMBASSADOR BURNS: Sean, nice to see you.

MR. MCCORMACK: It's our second installment. You're in town for the European chief of mission conference --

AMBASSADOR BURNS: I am.

MR. MCCORMACK: -- so we wanted to take the opportunity to talk to you a little bit about U.S.-Russia relations.

AMBASSADOR BURNS: My pleasure.

MR. MCCORMACK: We're coming up on the 200th anniversary of U.S.-Russia relations and you have a long experience in Russia. You were there ten years ago, a very different time in Russia. Give us a sense where we are right now in the U.S.-Russian relationship. People read some troubling things. It seemed as though at the beginning of the Bush Administration there was some promise in working together, but now they're starting to read some more troubling things, Russia maybe not cooperating the way we wanted to on various issues. Give us a sense where we are right now.

AMBASSADOR BURNS: Well, you know, Russia is a very complicated place these days, certainly a different place than I remember when I last served in our Embassy in the mid 1990s. That was a time when Russia was flat on its back economically and you've seen a fairly remarkable economic revival over the last five or six years in Russia, and that certainly colored not only the way in which Russians look at domestic life but also the way in which they look at their interests overseas.

And I think it's also true there's been a fair amount of mutual frustration and disappointment in the last couple of years in our relationship that Americans, the American Government, has certainly not been shy in expressing our concerns about the over-centralization of power in Russia, about how that power sometimes is used in relations with some of Russia's neighbors. And Russians have been equally up front in expressing their concerns that Americans don't really understand how complicated the last 15 years have been for Russia, that Americans are a little too quick to criticize and lecture from the perspective of Russians, and that again from the perspective of Russians Americans like to say that they welcome the revival of Russia as a great power but aren't really comfortable with it and seek to constrain it.

So I think the great danger in all of that mutual disappointment is that we lose sight of those areas in which we have a lot to gain by working together, whether it's in the field of economic cooperation, nuclear cooperation. The truth is, we're going to have areas of competition and difference and sometimes tension in our relationship, but there are a lot of areas in which working together makes sense for both of our interests but also for the rest of the world.

QUESTION: Where are those fundamental interests? Where are those shared fundamental interests? For example, on Iran -- let's use that one example -- we hear from the Russians that they don't want to see Iran get a nuclear weapon, yet you read in the newspapers about the Russian reticence to actually move forward on a tough, strong UN resolution. Do we have, for example, on Iran or other issues -- where are those shared interests? Is Iran one of those?

AMBASSADOR BURNS: Well, I think Iran, first, there's certainly a shared sense of strategic purpose in the sense that President Putin has been very up front in public in saying that, you know, Russia finds extremely dangerous the idea of the Iranian regime acquiring nuclear weapons. Tactically, it's true we've had some differences. It's been difficult to produce Security Council resolutions. But I think in the end, finding common ground between us on Iran, as on North Korea, is extremely important to making a dent in the problem and getting the attention of two very difficult regimes.

I think the broad area of nuclear cooperation is one example in which we can do more with the Russians. It's an area in which I think Russia and the United States really have unique historical responsibilities given our history and our capabilities. And I think in the development of civilian nuclear technology we've begun for the first time to negotiate an agreement on peaceful nuclear cooperation, the so-called 123 agreement. I think we're both looking at ways -- and our two presidents talked about this in November -- in which we can work together to strengthen the existing nonproliferation regimes.

And last but not least, it's important for the two of us to set a good example on how we manage our remaining nuclear arsenals, a good example for the rest of the world, and we have begun a strategic dialogue in looking, for example, at practical questions like what do we do after the expiration of the START Treaty in 2009. So in all of those areas, I think it's a reminder that nuclear cooperation serves both of our interests but also helps us make a contribution to a really big problem in the rest of the world.

MR. MCCORMACK: One area where there has been -- not tension, but certainly an area that we've watched very closely is Russia's relations with its so-called near abroad, those states in the former Soviet Union. And we have watched pretty closely how they have used their energy resources as a political lever. Are we going to see more of this in the future? Would you characterize this as responsible Russian behavior? What is it that when you sit down with your Russian counterparts, what do you say to them about those issues?

AMBASSADOR BURNS: Well, I mean, I think first on the one hand it makes sense to try to move to market pricing in terms of, you know, how Russia sells its gas and oil exports overseas. And so but the question, I think, really is how you go about doing that and whether or not you're engaging in a process which is a transparent one. That's not so much a favor to the United States or to Russia's neighbors as it is something that's in Russia's own self-interest over time because if energy security means anything, it means being able to set up predictable, transparent rules of the road for both suppliers as well as the demand side.

And so I think, you know, there are lots of elements of Russian behavior that cause people concern these days, but I also think you see a trend in which the Russian energy sector is becoming integrated into the rest of the world, you see partnerships like the one between ConocoPhillips and Lukoil, the third largest Russian energy company. And Lukoil is now 20 percent owned by Conoco. Conoco has invested something like $9 billion in Russia and it's produced dividends for both companies.

And so I think there are lots of examples in which you can see something productive for both countries come into this relationship, but it's not been an easy path and I suspect it's going to be complicated in the future, too.

MR. MCCORMACK: Let me shift to internal Russian issues. People have seen the headlines of the murder of Anna Politkovskaya. We remember, of course, Paul Klebnikov two years ago, who was an American citizen working for Fortune magazine who was assassinated.

AMBASSADOR BURNS: Right. Forbes, yeah.

MR. MCCORMACK: For Forbes. For Forbes magazine. And there have been a number of other instances where countries around the world have noted what appeared to be a closing down of the free, open institutions of the media. What is your level of concern about the overall direction of freedom of the press in Russia?

AMBASSADOR BURNS: Well, certainly there's been a lot of pressure against the media in Russia, particularly the electronic media. I think the print media, by contrast, is still a little bit more vibrant. I think this is most of all a matter of self-interest for Russians because a more or less independent media plays a really important role in Russian society, or should play a really important role in Russian society, just like in any society around the world. Russian leadership, for example, has identified corruption as a serious problem. I don't know of any example in the world where you can successfully fight that problem over the long haul without a more or less independent media and a more or less independent judicial system. So Russia is quite capable of developing a vibrant and independent media, and I think it's in the self-interest of Russia to do that. And certainly in --

MR. MCCORMACK: Do you see that happening in the next five years?

AMBASSADOR BURNS: No. As I said, I think there have been -- well, there certainly have been a lot of evidence in recent years to the contrary and I think it's going to be a complicated road ahead the next four or five years. And I think one of the most important challenges for Russians themselves is what do you do about the murders, as you said, of Anna Politkovskaya, of Paul Klebnikov two years ago, and the dozen other journalists in Russia who over the last six or seven years have been murdered. It's really important in Russia's own self-interest for those investigations to be pursued and to be successful in the end.

MR. MCCORMACK: So the average middle-class Russian, how do they get their news? How do they find out about what's going on in their country?

AMBASSADOR BURNS: Well, I mean, first, what's different in Russia today compared to the case in the late Soviet period is access to the rest of the world. I mean, in terms of internet users, Russia ranks in the top ten in the world, ahead actually of India and Brazil today. And so Russians of every generation have access to information in ways that they never had before. As I said, in terms of the Russian media itself, television media does not have nearly the openness that print media does, and I think that's something that it's in Russia's own interest to improve over time.

MR. MCCORMACK: One finally question looking to the year ahead. Russia is going to have a presidential election in 2008, I think in March 2008 they set the presidential election.

AMBASSADOR BURNS: Right, right.

MR. MCCORMACK: What effect is presidential politics going to play on Russian foreign policy and developments in Russia, for example, in the development of stronger democratic institutions and a more independent Duma? You talked about freedom of the press. So how is that going to play out in terms of Russian domestic politics and its foreign policy over the next year or so?

AMBASSADOR BURNS: Well, you know, presidential politics has a tendency to influence the behavior of lots of different societies and we're not immune from that either oftentimes. I think President Putin has made very clear in public that he doesn't intend to remain in the presidency after 2008 and so there's a big challenge ahead for Russians in terms of how that succession is managed and how the elections themselves are conducted.

It's bound to influence lots of different elements of foreign and domestic politics, but I think it's very important that those elections proceed according to the constitution and that over the course of the next year, year and a half, before those elections that progress is made in areas like modernization of the Russian economy, something that President Putin has put a lot of effort into. Recently we completed negotiations of a bilateral WTO agreement, probably the biggest single achievement in our bilateral economic relations in more than a decade.

And that offers opportunities for Russians too because alongside a lot of the clearly disturbing shorter-term trends there exists some more promising medium-term trends in Russia like the emergence of a middle class, like the potential to diversify Russia's economy beyond oil and gas. Because oftentimes I've found when people think about Russia and its economic potential, they think about what's in the ground, and the truth is it's the intellectual capital of that country that sets it apart from lots of other societies which happen to have a lot of natural resources. And so taking full advantage of that is a challenge that's going to be measured in generations, and so I think obviously what happens in 2008 is very important but it's part of a longer-term transition for Russia that's going to be with us, I think, for the next generation.

MR. MCCORMACK: Bill Burns, thanks very much for joining us.

AMBASSADOR BURNS: My pleasure.

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