Interview On CNN Live With Wolf Blitzer

Aired 8:15 a.m. EDT

MR. BLITZER:  He is the Deputy Secretary of State.  He is joining us live from Washington.  Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us.  I assume you've been briefed on the talks that the Secretary had with Yasser Arafat.  What have you heard?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, I had the opportunity to speak to Secretary Powell several times as he left the Mukata’a compound and headed back to Jerusalem.  He also described the talks to me as useful and constructive, and indicated that our two sides -- that is, the staffs of Secretary Powell and of Chairman Arafat -- will get together tomorrow, not to negotiate, but to find a way forward, that is, to realize the words that Chairman Arafat uttered in Arabic yesterday. 

MR. BLITZER:  And you just heard Saeb Erekat tell us that he assumed that will, in turn, result in a second round of direct talks between Colin Powell and Yasser Arafat.  Is that your understanding as well, Mr. Secretary? 

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  My understanding is only that we will have the staffs meet tomorrow.  Secretary Powell, this evening your time, will meet with probably President Katzav of Israel, and laterally Prime Minister Sharon, and after that we'll see what happens.

MR. BLITZER:  So everything still is very much up in the air.  That meeting tomorrow between the staffs of the Palestinian and the US delegations -- the US delegation, I assume -- correct me if I'm wrong -- will be led by General Zinni, the Special US Envoy?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Yes, I assume General Zinni will lead it, and probably assisted by either Mr. Burns or Mr. Satterfield, who are with the Secretary. 

MR. BLITZER:  What is the difference between negotiations -- you say there won't be negotiations tomorrow, but they will continue discussions to implement, to follow up on some of the issues that were dealt with today in Ramallah.  Walk us through precisely what you hope  will be achieved tomorrow by the staffs.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  I certainly hope they'll be able to flesh out the words that Chairman Arafat mentioned yesterday about the reduction in violence.  I think they'll be looking for ways for Chairman Arafat to actually use the bully pulpit of his leadership, as required and called upon by our President, to bring clearly home to his people that violence to accomplish political ends is not going to be effective.  I think we have to find the way forward with that.  Equally, the Secretary will be working with our friends in Israel to try to effect even further withdrawals, as the President has called for.

MR. BLITZER:  You heard Saeb Erekat suggest that perhaps by Tuesday he was hoping the Israelis will withdraw from Ramallah, from the area around Yasser Arafat's headquarters.  Is that realistic?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Look, Mr. Blitzer, you're an expert on the Middle East.  I would assume nothing.  The President has called for the Israelis to withdraw without delay.  There have been substantial withdrawals.  We expect more.  I wouldn't put the timetable on it for fear that I might be found out to be misinformed.

MR. BLITZER:  Is there any way the Israelis can withdraw -- here's the question -- that the Israelis can withdraw while there is no guarantee the suicide bombings won't resume?  In other words, Palestinians say they can't make any security assurances till the Israelis withdraw; the Israelis say they can't withdraw until they have hard commitments that there will be an end to the suicide bombings.

How do you, the United States, the honest broker in this effort, get around that dilemma? 

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  That's why you have our top diplomatic in the region, to try to find the way forward.  Every night that goes by without a suicide bombing means many more families in Israel will be able to live and realize their dreams.  Every moment that an Israeli tank pulls out of a West Bank town you have Palestinians who can resume their lives.  This is what he is seeking.  This is what he is working for.  And I believe the necessary angle is to get enough confidence on both sides to be able to take mutual steps. 

MR. BLITZER:  Is it fair to say -- would it be fair to say that the Secretary's return to Washington is now open-ended, given what has happened -- the meeting with Ariel Sharon on Friday, the meeting today, Sunday, with Yasser Arafat? 

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  I think it's fair to say that the Secretary will be consulting with the President, with the senior members of the President's administration, and determining the way forward.  And just how long he may stay in the region and where he may go elsewhere is something that the President will decide.

MR. BLITZER:  From here, where else might he go?  Because there's been a lot of concern -- and maybe you can help us better understand that concern -- about a second front perhaps opening up between the Israeli and Lebanese borders, with the Syrians of course very much involved as well.  How concerned are you about that potential nightmare scenario?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  We are very concerned with that, and that's why Secretary Powell went to the Northern Command headquarters, saw the shelling of Shebaa Farms by Hezbollah.  It's why the United States has exerted tremendous pressure on Iran and Syria to refrain Hezbollah from these actions.  Whether the Secretary goes there or not is still up in the air, but we have exerted enormous pressure on the Syrians and the Iranians. 

MR. BLITZER:  There is some speculation, as you well know, Mr. Secretary, that from here the Secretary might go to Damascus to meet with President Bashar al-Assad to directly underline that high-level US concern about potential trouble along the Israeli-Lebanese border.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Yes, I've seen that speculation, and there has been some discussion.  But I think the first order of business is for Secretary Powell to meet with Prime Minister Sharon, to debrief Prime Minister Sharon on the content of the meeting today with Chairman Arafat, and to see if we can't find a wary forward with the Israelis.

MR. BLITZER:  Is there a receptivity on the US side to this Israeli proposal -- we heard Ranan Gissin, the advisor, the spokesman to Ariel Sharon, say here on CNN Live earlier today that the Israelis are now interested in another Madrid-like international conference to consider some steps to end this -- to move forward the peace process.  Is the US open to that?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  We're open to all sorts of good ideas, Mr. Blitzer.  We're open to Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia's vision for the future.  We're open to any ideas our Israeli friends or anyone else in the region have, and we're open to ideas from Chairman Arafat.  And those are among the things that Secretary Powell discussed with the Chairman today.

MR. BLITZER:  Are you open to the idea of introducing US military troops into the West Bank to separate, in effect, Israelis and Palestinians to help monitor some sort of cease-fire? 

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, we have certainly talked about the idea of monitors of some sort as we move forward to Tenet-Mitchell, or through Tenet-Mitchell.  We have also seen calls from the United Nations for the introduction of certain monitors.  Again, we are interested in any ideas anyone has.  We'll look at them all.  There have been no in-depth discussion about the use of US forces for this method -- for this problem.

MR. BLITZER:  But it sounds to me you're certainly not ruling that out; even if the discussions have not been all that intensive back in Washington, that's an idea that's potentially useful.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  I don't think, Mr. Blitzer, you ought to put words in my mouth.  We're not ruling anything in and we're not ruling anything out.  We're looking for ideas to move forward, and if there are ideas that everyone can agree upon as a useful way to move forward, then of course we would. 

MR. BLITZER:  Mr. Secretary, I've known you now for many years, going back to when you were at the Pentagon.  You know that there is still some concern at the Pentagon about introducing US military personnel in what would be an extremely volatile situation here in the Middle East.  And there is a lot of recollection of what happened in 1983 with those 241 Marines at the barracks outside Beirut when a suicide truck bomber killed them.

How concerned should Pentagon personnel be about a repeat of that kind of tragedy?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Any time any of our sons and daughters is put in harm's way, we all ought to be mighty concerned.  But I think it's a mighty leap of faith to say or to bring forward a discussion about American armed peacekeepers in the territories or in Israel at this point. 

MR. BLITZER:  What do you think about this latest Israeli proposal to end the standoff at the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem to give those 200 Palestinian gunmen two options basically:  either surrender to Israeli troops and face a military trial here in Israel, or safe passage conducted by the Red Cross, the International Committee of the Red Cross, to leave this area once and forever, never be allowed to return to this part of the world?  What do you think of that Israeli proposal? 

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, Mr. Blitzer, what it shows me is that Israel realizes that there is a general problem in Bethlehem and that the whole world community is looking at it, and they are searching for a way to resolve it without further bloodshed and without further damage.  And in that regard, I find it positive. 

MR. BLITZER:  And what about the situation in Jenin, the refugee camp, the Palestinian refugee camp?  A lot of wild rumors, a lot of accusations, the Palestinians accusing the Israelis of having engaged in a massacre of hundreds of Palestinians in Jenin over these past few days during fierce fighting that waged there.  What does the US Government specifically know about what happened in Jenin? 

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Mr. Blitzer, Jenin is on the verge of assuming mythical proportions.  That is why Secretary Powell met with the international aid community yesterday in Israel.  It's why he issued a very strong call for Israel to allow the international humanitarian organizations to enter Jenin, so we can find out just what did or didn't happen and hopefully put to rest these rumors.  So I think it's very incumbent upon Israel to open up Jenin as soon as possible.

The United States information on Jenin is relatively limited as well.  We've not had access.

MR. BLITZER:  But you do have ways of finding out, and as we've been speaking, Mr. Secretary, we've been showing our viewers some pictures, some still photos, of that meeting between Chairman Arafat and the Secretary of State in Ramallah, a three-hour meeting.  The Israeli cabinet also announced today that with the exception of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, the situation in Jenin at that refugee camp, and the military -- the political headquarters of Yasser Arafat in Ramallah, they will be easing restrictions, opening up the rest of the West Bank.

I take it you believe that's a positive development.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, I spoke to Ambassador Dan Kurtzer, our Ambassador in Israel, a few moments before coming down here, Mr. Blitzer.  We've not yet been able to confirm that that was a cabinet discussion.  I've seen the news tickers reporting that, and if that's the case, it's a very positive development, and further, I think, proof that the Israelis are heeding the call of President Bush. 

MR. BLITZER:  So, before I let you go, Mr. Secretary, one final question.  You have no regrets whatsoever, despite the criticism you've been receiving, the Bush administration is receiving, for having this meeting with Yasser Arafat; you think it was a good idea?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Look, I've seen people who have accused the administration of miscalculation.  We have a President who is a man of peace, the President at a time of war for our nation.  He is exerting every effort he can to try to bring peace to the region.  And if that's a miscalculation or a mistake, then you can put my name down on that column.  I think that we'll continue to exert every effort for peace, and that's in keeping with our national character.

MR. BLITZER:  All right.  Richard Armitage.  He's the number two man at the State Department, the Deputy Secretary of State, joining us for a candid conversation on what has happened here as the Secretary of State continues his search for a cease-fire, and presumably, following that, a resumption of peace talks between Israelis and Palestinians.  Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us. 

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Mr. Blitzer, a pleasure.