Interview During Pentagon Radio Day by Ben Ball and Michael Phillips

8:15 am

QUESTION:  Welcome back to the program.  This is Coastal Daybreak and we're live from the Pentagon this morning.  I'm Ben Ball, also with the host of Viewpoints, Michael Phillips is here with us.  And joining us this morning, we have the distinct honor to have with us Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage with us.
 
Good morning, Deputy Secretary.  How are you?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Thank you, Mr. Ball.  Great.
 
QUESTION:  Mr. Secretary, tell us a little bit about, as we approach this one year anniversary, from the Department of State and the Department of Defense, probably an unprecedented level of cooperation in this Operation Iraqi Freedom and war on terror.
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Now there is no question that we've been forced together because of the enormity of the task and the equities involved.  So I'd say we're working pretty seamlessly.  But beyond that, there's something new.  It used to be that one had to win the war by the force of arms, and then you'd win the peace by the force of diplomacy, and they were sequential.
 
That is no longer the case.  They have to go hand-in-hand.  And that's the reason I think we're having this unprecedented cooperation.
 
QUESTION:  As we move into this new realm of diplomacy in the 21st century, the force of arms will continue to go hand-in-hand?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, I think it has to because part of -- parts, not the complete part, but part of winning this global war on terrorism is going to be the famous and hearts and minds.  But you have to have a pointy-edged spear involved, hence, the military.
 
I know that our colleagues, the State Department officers, who are working alongside General Kimmitt and others, both in Baghdad and in 16 of the 18 provinces, work daily with U.S. military forces who are on patrol with them, arranged town hall meetings under the security provided by the military.  So it's truly unprecedented.
 
QUESTION:  Mr. Secretary, after the fall of the Soviet Union and your work with the newly independent states there was great concern about a fall into chaos there.  Obviously, we have that same concern with Iraq as we're transitioning into an Iraqi government.  What are we doing to keep that from happening?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  We're trying to do a much better job of explaining ourselves and having Iraqi leadership explain to Iraqi people just where we are today and where we're going tomorrow.  People seem to have a lot of patience if they understand clearly what the future looks like.
 
Where people get impatient is when they can't make decisions about how tomorrow is going to be or how next week or next month is going to be.  So that's kind of our strategy  in country.
 
QUESTION:  Again, our guest is Secretary Armitage.  And Secretary, regarding the decision or the vote earlier this week in Spain, and of the decision, of course, the interest apparently on the part of the new premier to -- the president to remove certain forces from Iraq.  What impact does this have on our relations with our coalition forces in the region?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, Mr. Phillips, you're correct that Mr. Zapatero has made comments that he would remove his Spanish forces by the end of June, if the United Nations were more heavily involved, and that hasn't been completely fleshed out.  I don't quite know what he means by that.
 
But thus far, we've seen no change of opinion on those other 24 countries who are standing alongside us.
 
QUESTION:  I find it interesting, your comment a moment ago, and I think it segues into the force of arms, then the force of diplomacy, now it works hand-in-hand.  And it works hand-in-hand not only with the immediate (inaudible) of Iraq, but again internationally.  So there is a whole new model out there -- I don't want to use the term paragon, but a whole new model.
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Yeah, there really is.  And it extends, as you suggest, outside of Iraq.  You were speculating on -- that it might be a difficulty in holding the international coalition together in the wake of Spain's stated intentions thus far.  We haven't seen any atrophying, but this is something that diplomats have to work on.
 
I'd note equally that after May of 2003, we had four -- one, two, three, four -- UN Security Council resolutions on the question of Iraq.  That's a lot of diplomacy to go hand-in-glove with our military colleagues, and the activities that they're so valiantly taking part in on the ground.
 
QUESTION:  What are your hopes for the Iraqi people, as we transition to an Iraqi government, and as far as their role in the world community?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  I think their role in the world community is some time in the future.  Right now, we're interested in their role in the Middle East, and we want to make clear the proposition that a multiethnic, multi-religious society can exist peacefully in a better (inaudible) republic, democratic republic.  And that's what we're aiming towards.  That's what the recent basic law, which was signed on the eighth of this month, indicates (inaudible) Iraqis (inaudible) intend to go.  That's going to be a great thing for the Middle East.  It's going to be a great thing for Middle East peace, and it's going to be a great blow to terrorism.
 
QUESTION:  And of course, the issue of terrorism is something that is going to be an ongoing effort, at least that's my observation -- and from your perspective, as -- I mean, the State Department?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  President Bush, right in the wake of 9/11 made it crystal clear, I thought, to the American public that this is a long-term endeavor.  We're in a battle against terrorists who destroyed wontedly.  But that battle is not just on the ground with explosives and with the weapons that terrorists bring, it is a battle of ideas.
 
Their idea is that western secular government should not exist.  Ours, of course, is that western-style secular governments are a must to provide for human rights and human freedoms.
 
QUESTION:  If it turns out that al-Qaida isn't responsible for those bombings in Madrid, and if it turns out that that was a huge influence in turning a government that was friendly to us to a Socialist government that may not be so friendly, is that a crucial turning point?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  I am not sure the analysis is correct.
 
QUESTION:  Okay.
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  What I saw in the wake of that horrid bombing in Madrid were millions of Spaniards standing out protesting against terrorism.  So I think you've got a solid wall against terrorists.  I think the vote that propelled the Socialists into power in Spain, as I understand it, was more a protest by the people against the handling of the terrorist event by the sitting government of Spain.
 
QUESTION:  We were just talking -- and again, our guest is Secretary Armitage.  Mr. Secretary, again, thank you for taking the time to be with us today.
 
We were just talking a few moments ago with General Mark Kimmitt, there in Iraq.  And I asked him:  With the increased terrorist activity or the continuing terrorist activity there in Iraq, what impact is that having on the Iraqis, insofar as their support for the coalition forces and the new Iraqi government?
 
And he said, "To the contrary, which is what we are not seeing in the press, quite frankly, that there is a growing support for the coalition forces, the whole effect of a free Iraq."  Would that also be possibly the result of the bombing in Madrid, that, in fact, it might cause a greater strengthening of resolve?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, I think that's going to be the effect of Europe.  Already we've seen a call for EU ministers, foreign ministers, to get together to figure out if they're buttoned up appropriately.  So I think, ultimately, you will see a further resolve among our European allies, and I think ours is pretty clear.
 
Regarding General Kimmitt's comments about what's happening in Iraq, I think there is no greater evidence of the truth of his words looking at recruits for Iraqi police.  Iraqi police are under terrible stress from the enemies because this is -- Rudy Guiliani proved it in New York -- you get the police on the streets, you can really clean up a city.
 
This is what the terrorists fear.  So that's why they're attacking the police in great numbers.  And every time there is an attack, more recruits show up willing to take their place in line.  That's a pretty good sign of Iraqi resolve.
 
QUESTION:  I've got to ask this question, and you may not be desirous of answering it.
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, we'll give it a shot.
 
QUESTION:  With that said, I'm flummoxed by the hesitancy to react and respond to terrorism aggressively.  I mean, it took the United States and a few -- a minority number of the coalition forces initially to see the threat.  What is the hesitancy?  What’s confusing other nations in the world about this threat of terrorism because it's absolute?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  First of all, there is a basic conflict between our western open way of life and the things that one must do to button up against terrorists.  There is a diminution of human freedoms.  And that's very difficult for governments to think about a conflict.
 
But moreover, I think you have to look at the capabilities of steps to go against terrorism.  There are only a few who can project military force with the speed and the exactness of the United States; there are very few in number who can do that.
 
I would say that the 24,500 men, who are standing alongside our coalition forces in Iraq, are a pretty good sign that other nations do have resolve.  It takes them awhile to summon up that resolve and to get the necessary political backing.  But once they've made a decision, they're standing side-by-side with Army and Marines who are doing the dirty, hard and dangerous work in Iraq.
 
QUESTION:  There also seems to be a clear change in thinking, even in our country, of understanding terrorism as an act of war versus being a criminal act, and the way that other countries come to that realization will change their thinking as well.
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, look what's happened in Saudi Arabia from the May bombings?  There has been a 180 degree change, in not only the cooperation, but the psyche of the Saudi authorities; they’re going after these folks now.  They realize that these terrorists are not just to kill westerners; they want to kill Muslims, as well, because they want to kill ideas.
 
QUESTION:  Is that also motivation in Libya?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Libya -- actually, Colonel Qadhafi has told us several interesting things.  (Laughter.)  He said, "Look, the United States had nuclear weapons and you didn't prevail in Vietnam.  You had nuclear weapons and you still fought hard in the first and second Gulf War, conventionally.  It was making me a pariah, so there was a great deal of pain for no gain.
 
QUESTION:  Right.
 
QUESTION:  Very interesting.
 
QUESTION:  Yeah.  It's very interesting.
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  So I think that the fact that he saw the United States and the coalition who would actually resolve, certainly didn't dissuade him from being more positive in his approach to opening up.
 
QUESTION:  But this is a good example of an action, a precise and defined action, in the case of Iraqi Freedom, has had positive impact in the region.
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Yeah.  I think that without question there is new -- there are new winds blowing through the whole region, whether you look at Bahrain or even Saudi Arabia, Egypt.  There was a statement out of an Alexandria Egypt Regional Conference yesterday that will bring tears to your eyes, in the terms that embrace economic and political reform.  So these winds are sweeping through the Middle East and they wouldn't have swept without Operation Iraqi Freedom.
 
QUESTION:  Yeah.  Egypt has seen that terror assassinate their leaders.
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Yeah, they sure have.  But most of the nations in the Middle East have seen some degree of terror -- I believe Morocco, Turkey.
 
QUESTION:  And is the matter eventually coming to a point where they say, I'm just not going to take it any more?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Just (inaudible) once on that movie network, and throw open the window and scream out that I can't take it anymore.  And they're not taking it.  Saudis are the most recent converts.
 
QUESTION:  The war on terror, though, is on so many fronts, from the Philippines to South America to us now.  Are we capable of fighting this war, both diplomatically and militarily?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  There's no choice.  It's not a matter of are we capable, we must be capable.  And we've got to reach out and snuff these people and these ideas out where they are.
 
QUESTION:  Do we have the resolve in our own country, Mr. Secretary?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Yeah.
 
QUESTION:  You're confident of that?
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Yeah.  Oh, yeah.  Look at the resolve that these servicemen and women show in Iraq.  This is, as I say, dirty, hard and dangerous work.  They know why they're there.  They know why they're sacrificing.  They feel that they're taking part in the great endeavors of this generation.  I believe they are, and I'm so proud of them.
 
QUESTION:  And we -- go ahead.
 
QUESTION:  Mr. Secretary, thank you very much.
 
QUESTION:  And we appreciate you spending some time with us this morning, we appreciate that, out of your busy day and taking some time to speak with us and speak directly to our listeners, too, back in Camp Lejeune and Cherry Point and New River and all our retirees, as well.
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, I'd give them a big "hoo-hah” and “good on ya."
 
QUESTION:  All right.  Thanks a lot, Mr. Secretary, very much.
 
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Thank you.

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