Interview by Jon Leyne of BBC News

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, we have been in touch with our friends around the world, frankly, to keep a constant diplomatic presence in the region to talk to both sides to encourage restraint on the part of both sides and to find a solution. Chris Patten from the European Union was in a week or so ago. As you know, your Foreign Secretary Jack Straw was in a few days ago. Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz of Defense -- Wolfowitz is in Singapore with Minister of Defense of India Fernandes talking about the issues.

So next week, we will be sending in Deputy Secretary of State Armitage, who will go in and visit both parties. And then the week after, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, who will be traveling in the area -- he will be going to NATO meetings and down into the Persian Gulf, so it made sense for him to continue his journey around to India and Pakistan because there is a unique defense dimension to this that is of interest to Secretary Rumsfeld, and that is how could a potential conflict between these two nations affect our campaign against terrorism in Afghanistan.

So we're going to work with friends around the world, all the leaders of the world, to do everything we can to keep this situation from turning into a conflict. And as you also know, there's another meeting where the two leaders are going to Almaty in Kazakhstan, and President Putin and other regional leaders will be there also to discuss with Prime Minister Vajpayee and President Musharraf the situation.

So we're putting a 100 percent full court press on this, and of course I speak to both sides on a regular basis. I guess I've spoken to President Musharraf, oh, five times in the last six or seven days.

QUESTION: Any plans to go there yourself?

SECRETARY POWELL: Not yet, but it's always a possibility. Right now I'm able to do what I think I have to do by telephone and by essentially coordinating what we are doing with my friends and colleagues, and especially with Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.

QUESTION: Now, a week ago you said you were watching to see whether General Musharraf had fulfilled his promise to stop infiltration across the line of control. A week later, what do you see?

SECRETARY POWELL: A week later, I have seen indications that instructions have been given to cease this kind of activity. I think it is still too early to say that it has stopped. And when and if it does stop, it must also stop permanently. It can't be something where you turn a tap on or off; we will stop it for a while and get out of this problem, and then we'll turn it on again. I think what we're expecting President Musharraf to do is to use all of the authority he has to stop it, and to keep it stopped, so that we can get this crisis behind us.

Now, if it becomes obvious that he has done that, and we can actually detect this, and more importantly the Indians can see that it's stopped, then we have a basis for saying to the Indian side: "Okay, look, that's been stopped. We have assurances that it will be on a permanent basis. Now we are hopeful and expecting you to take de-escalatory steps so that you can start to bring these troops away from this very tense border and start moving in the other direction."

And then both sides can take further steps, ultimately I hope leading to a dialogue between the two sides on the outstanding issues between them, and especially ultimately the issue of Kashmir.

QUESTION: Well, what about the issue of dialogue? It's all very well to pull the troops back if you succeed in getting that. Are you pressing the Indians to enter into a dialogue if things calm down?

SECRETARY POWELL: I have told both sides that if things calm down, if we get back to where we were before the assault on the parliament and the attack in Srinagar, if we can get back to a more stable, less tense situation, the United States would be encouraging both sides to enter a dialogue. And to the extent that we can be helpful in causing that dialogue to take place, we are more than willing to do it. We do not wish to come in as a mediator, but I think our offices -- because we have such solid relations with both countries, our goods offices could be useful.

QUESTION: How long does General Musharraf have to deliver?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I can't answer that question. I mean, what we are concerned about is that the Indians might find that they have to attack. I don't know what their timeline is. There are weather considerations. There are lots of other considerations.

What I am impressed with right now, however, is that both sides -- both sides -- seem to be looking for a political solution. Both sides realize that little can be gained from a war. But, you know, wars start anyway when people realize little can be gained from such wars. But little can be gained from this war. If the Indians attacked, it's unlikely that they would be able to take care of the problem that they are attacking against on a permanent basis. It would of course draw a response from Pakistan. That is very destabilizing for the whole region. It would affect US interests in that region and our war against terrorism, against al-Qaida and the Taliban.

But more significantly, both sides are nuclear-armed. Now, I think both sides recognize that the most horrific thing that could happen in the year 2002 is, for the second time in history, a nuclear exchange to take place. The whole world would condemn whoever does that, and I think that is a sobering reality that both understand. Nevertheless, they are nuclear-armed, and we don't want to go down this road to test any propositions as to whether they will or they won't.

But I have communicated to both that I have a little experience in the employment of nuclear weapons. It was my job for many years as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, as a corps commander, as a battalion commander. We don't want to go down this road. It is not just another weapon in a toolbox of weapons. It crosses a line that the world does not want to see crossed in 2002. And the condemnation that would go against whichever country did it would be worldwide and it would be immediate, and we really don't want to see this kind of action.

QUESTION: Intelligence reports circulating in Washington say between 50 and 60 training camps reopened in the last few months. Were eyes taken off the ball here?

SECRETARY POWELL: No, I'm not familiar with that particular intelligence report. We have been following this and monitoring this on a constant basis, so I don't think any eyes have been taken off any ball. I've stayed in close contact with the situation.

We were disappointed in the spring that some initial steps that we thought were being taken to shut down activity across the line of control did not continue, and we did not see the kind of cessation that we were expecting based on what President Musharraf said in his January 12th speech. And that's why we are now pressing General Musharraf, President Musharraf, very intensely to essentially do what he said he was going to do. He spoke very candidly on January 12th. He once again told the world that he was a member of this campaign against terrorism and he was going to shut down this terrorist activity. He also said that there are certain rights that the Kashmiri people are anxious to enjoy. And so he has not lost his commitment to that cause, but he was going to shut down terrorism, and that is going across the line of control to conduct attacks that kill innocent people.

And so we expect him to make good his word, and the assurances he has given me in the many conversations we have had in recent weeks lead me to believe that he is going to do that. But I can't go anywhere with that assurance. The only time I can go somewhere and make a case with the Indian side or to the world is when we see the action taking place, that it has been stopped.

QUESTION: Last question on this topic. What is the state of plans to pull out US citizens in India and Pakistan?

SECRETARY POWELL: We will be making an announcement this morning that we are moving to what we call authorized departure. That means that those nonessential personnel and their family members who believe that they should leave, or would prefer to leave, will be authorized to leave, and we will take care of them in their departure. There are tens of thousands of American citizens in both countries, and they will make their own decisions. We are also reinforcing our Travel Advisory, warning people that this is probably not the best place to visit and travel to at the moment.

QUESTION: On the Middle East, a couple months ago you were talking about a conference in early summer; now you're talking about sometime in the summer, and it's been downgraded to the status of a meeting. Why the delay, why the downgrading?

SECRETARY POWELL: There's really no delay. I said early summer once, and then I shifted to summer because I couldn't quite tell when in the summer I was going to do it. So I didn't want to box myself in with people saying it's the 21st of May, summer has begun, or whenever summer begins in June, and therefore it's early summer, why don't you have your conference? So I've been saying summer.

I still am hoping to have this meeting/conference -- call it what you choose -- in the summer, and that's why Ambassador Burns, Bill Burns, my Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, is in the region now. He has met with Chairman Arafat, he has met with Arab leaders. He is meeting today with Prime Minister Sharon, and he will come back early next week.

Director Tenet, our Director of the CIA, leaves today to go to the region as well to make a security assessment, meet with Chairman Arafat and his security officials, to see how we can start cooperation going again between the two sides so that they can share information and try to find these terrorists who are not only killing innocent Israeli civilians but they're killing the Palestinians' dream for an independent state.

And when George Tenet comes back from his trip next week, we will bring all this information together, see where we are, also make a political judgment as to what the political scale will bear right now in terms of the Israeli point of view, Arab point of view and Palestinian point of view, and see how we bring all these pieces together and focus them on a conference or a meeting sometime in the course of the summer.

Now, the reason we shift between conference and meeting -- the President said to me one day, "Colin, what's the difference?" I said, "As far as I'm concerned, Mr. President, nothing. People are going to come together." But what I'm trying to do is not over-hype it in the sense that it is going to be one of these big summit meetings where all the heads of state come. I'm looking for something that's at the ministerial level, that I will be representing the United States and there will be other people who are representing different parts of the Madrid Quartet and the Palestinian Authority, and I hope the Israeli Government, if we get that far -- others. We'll see.

But I want it to be understood that this is a modest step forward, flowing from the President's 4 April speech, the vision he laid out of two states living side by side, Israel and Palestine -- the end of terror, the end of violence, and a more active role for the Arab nations to play, and also for a transformed the Palestinian Authority. We are working all those pieces. And we're starting to see some things. The Palestinians themselves have said they need to do some reform and transformation. I was pleased yesterday that Chairman Arafat signed a basic law that sort of -- you know, was necessary to implement the Palestinian constitution, and it's been waiting since 1996 for signature.

So there's clearly an understanding that we need to move forward, and I hope at this meeting/conference/seminar -- whatever it is -- that we start to bring these pieces together. But don't expect us to come out of that meeting and say we've got a solution. Expect us to come out of that meeting saying we've talked about security and we've made progress; we've talked about economic development and humanitarian help for the Palestinian people and we've made progress; and we've talked about a political solution. And we'll see what progress we have made. And I'm sure there will be other meetings and conferences in the future.

QUESTION: George Tenet's mission -- he is reorganizing, or advising on reorganizing the Palestinian security forces, but they're still going to answer to Yasser Arafat, who you have criticized for his security actions.

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, George Tenet can't take command of the Palestinian Security forces, but he is one of the authors of the plan that created these Palestinian organizations, the security organizations in the first place. He helped to create them some years ago. So he brings a great deal of expertise and experience to the task, and we're asking him to take that expertise and experience back in, discuss it with the Palestinian security officers, discuss it with Chairman Arafat, discuss it with other Palestinian leaders, and see if we can not get a more rational organization for all the Palestinian security forces and start to wash out of the Palestinian security force those organizations that are not doing their job, and in fact have turned to non-helpful action, and even in some cases terrorist activity. And so that's what George is doing.

Chairman Arafat -- he has been taking some steps recently, but we'll see where all of that leads us. But we're not only working with Chairman Arafat; we're working with all Palestinian leaders who, it seems to me, are coming to the realization that that they have to make changes in the way they're organized; they have to put in place the right kind of a government that will gain the respect of the international community, that has transparency in its system, that is democratically based, that is non-corrupt, that will be an authority that one can work with, that we can work with and ultimately the Israelis can work with.

QUESTION: On Iraq, we keep hearing there are no plans on the President's desk to invade Iraq. What does that mean?

SECRETARY POWELL: It seems to me a rather clear declaratory sentence: There are no plans on the President's desk. He has received no recommendation from his advisors to undertake a military operation against Iraq. There is no question however that we believe the regime should be changed. So we're working with the international community, with the UN to put smart sanctions in place, and we've succeeded with a great deal of help, and frankly leadership on the part of the British Government. And now we are trying to get the inspectors back in. The President has called for the inspectors to go back in repeatedly.

And at the same time, outside these multilateral efforts, the President believes, we all believe -- I certainly believe -- I've been watching this fellow for a number of years -- that the people of Iraq and the people of the region would be better off if there was a change in regime. And we are constantly reviewing options and plans that people come up with as to how this might be accomplished -- politically, diplomatically, and yes of course we examine military options as well. But as the President has said repeatedly, and in recent days again, he has no war plan on his desk and his advisors have not provided one. All speculation to the contrary is nothing but speculation to the contrary.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, I have to ask you about your own position because there is a perception abroad that perhaps you're losing the battle for influence, losing the battle for the President's ear to what are generally called hardliners there. Are you still going to be there in 2004 if the President wants you?

SECRETARY POWELL: What evidence do you have for this position, sir?

QUESTION: It is the evidence --

SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, please.

QUESTION: It's the evidence of the daily policy battles in Washington when --

SECRETARY POWELL: There are always daily policy battles in Washington. It's been going on since, oh, 1789 or thereabouts. Sure, there are policy battles in Washington, but in terms of how our agenda has moved, we have just come back from Europe where we succeeded in arriving at a treaty with the Russians, which I think is a landmark treaty, to reduce the number of deployed nuclear warheads. We signed a political declaration with the Russians. We then went to Italy and we signed a new document that created the NATO-Russia Council. We had excellent bilateral meetings with our friends in Berlin and Paris and Rome and in Moscow.

So that was a pretty good trip, and I don't think I argued against any of these ideas; in fact, one might say that I was an advocate for most of the things that we accomplished last week. And so if I've lost the ear of the President, neither I nor the President are aware of it.

QUESTION: On the Middle East, are you happy that the Defense Department has such a major role in policymaking?

SECRETARY POWELL: The Defense Department should have a major role in policy development. First, it is a department that very often, when diplomacy fails, is the one who has to carry out whatever military missions come along. But it is also led by a good friend of mine, Donald Rumsfeld, who has decades of experience in foreign policy and defense policy. He's been Ambassador to NATO, he has been a Middle East negotiator. And the President and I deserve to hear from Don Rumsfeld and to hear his views and opinions. And there are many other voices in town that we listen to or don't listen to, but I listen to Don Rumsfeld because he brings a great deal of experience.

And I think it serves the President very, very well when you have a variety of strong-willed individuals in your cabinet who can discuss an item, more often than not agree on a particular outcome; and when we disagree, we have sufficient confidence in our standing with the President and sufficient respect for each other that we can disagree in an agreeable way; and the President benefits when he hears different points of view sharply presented, not rounded off like some pebble on a beach, but sharply presented with all the edges. And occasionally one of these edges is visible to the press and it generates all kinds of stories that there is a war in the heavens.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, thanks very much indeed.

SECRETARY POWELL: I'll be around.