Press Briefing on Board Plane

QUESTION: Can you please clarify for us this al-Hayat interview that you gave regarding what you mean by a temporary or transitional Palestinian state?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think I’ve talked about this a number of times before and the ideas that are out there with respect to how you move forward. On the one hand, there are those who believe that unless you have a political horizon put in place that people can see, it will be hard for the Arabs and the Palestinians to move forward with the kinds of reforms that are required to improve security and to bring greater accountability to the Palestinian leadership, the Palestinian government. Along with that line of thinking is the proposition that, before you can get to that end state, you may need a provisional arrangement or interim state on the way there. There are some who are concerned that, if you just state a provisional state idea, you may never get to the end state and there are strong views on both sides of this issue that I think you’re well familiar with and we have heard these views expressed from all of the people we have been consulting with and that the President continues to consult with when he will see Prince Saud tomorrow and then I’ll see Prince Saud on Friday. As I said in the interviews and as I said elsewhere yesterday, we’re going to be bringing all of these ideas together, all of these different threads we’ve picked up over the last couple of months and weave them into an extension of the President’s vision going beyond where we were on the fourth of April when he laid out a vision of two states living side by side in peace: Israel, a Jewish state, and Palestine, a state for the Palestinian people, building on the Arab League vision and all the other UN resolutions that you are familiar with. I expect that once we have had a chance to reflect on all of these ideas, the President will communicate, as he said last Friday when he was asked about it, he will communicate to the American people, to the world, and to the region how we are going to try to move forward.

QUESTION: Just to follow up. What is an interim state? What is a provisional state? Is it a state without borders? Is it a state without leaders? What is it?

SECRETARY POWELL: That is a question that will have to be answered, but, if it is going to be a state, it will have to have some structure. It will have to have something that looks like territory, even though it may not be perfectly defined forever and it will have to have institutions within it to be a state. What kinds of institutions and that’s why we’re focusing so much on transformation and reform within the Palestinian community and within the Palestinian Authority to begin to create more accountable institutions whether you are going for an interim or a final agreement whatever your preference might be, you have to have responsible institutions to be the basis of such a state, be it provisional or be it final. States have to have functioning institutions and they have to have something that defines what makes that place a state. It doesn't mean it all has to be finalized, but these are the kinds of issues that we're working through. They're tough issues; the kinds of issues that we'll be examining in the days ahead and the President will communicate his decision and his vision of how to go forward.

QUESTION: On the same subject, would the state have a leader and would it be Chairman Arafat? Are you going to push for this? Does the United States want it? And then will it have the same territory it has now or are you going to look for more territory?

SECRETARY POWELL: You're taking me far beyond what I said. I did not say there would be a state. I said these are the ideas that are out there. So it would be premature for me to buy into your premise and then tell you who's going to be in charge of it, how it's organized, and all the other things that go with that. I'm just trying to lay out to you the range of ideas that are out there, the issues that the President is examining. In due course, if one moves in that direction, all the questions you just asked will have to be dealt with and answered.

QUESTION: Given the President's remarks about Yasser Arafat the other day, give us your assessment of Chairman Arafat's performance and what he's done and what he still has to do. And if you could be as specific as possible.

SECRETARY POWELL: The President has expressed his disappointment in Chairman Arafat on many occasions. I have expressed my disappointment in his performance. He remains, in the eyes of the Palestinian people, their leader, and he remains the head of the Palestinian Authority. We believe that there are other Palestinian leaders that we can also work with, and so the President, in his remarks in recent days, has commented on the fact that we will have to be working with a full range of Palestinian leaders. Chairman Arafat is there and I continue to work with him. We will continue to work with him. We are also going to work with other leaders. We think that this transformation effort has to bring in all parts of the Palestinian leadership. We take note of some of the cabinet changes that Chairman Arafat made the other day. Some of the new members of the cabinet are interesting new leaders and we'll see how that all develops. But the President just wanted to make sure we all understood that we're looking for leadership in all components at all levels within the Palestinian community.

QUESTION: (Inaudible).

SECRETARY POWELL: Yes. Well, there has to be performance. We have to get the security situation under control. So one of our major initiatives is with George Tenet going over there, coming back, and he laid some rather specific proposals before Chairman Arafat and other Palestinian leaders about the kind of performance we have to see from a reinvigorated transformed security apparatus. So, yes, as we go forward, however we go forward, we will not be successful unless we put specific performance standards in front of them with respect to security, with respect to financial accountability, with respect to transparency, and in response we will put forward ideas with respect to economic development, humanitarian relief, and how we can improve the lot of the Palestinian people. The President has also spoken to this on a regular basis.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, I just wondered if I could ask, after your consultations and the presidents are finished with the Saudi Foreign Minister later this week, what is the process internal to the administration that has yet to be done, that you guys have yet to go through, in formulating this proposal? Is it a series of principals meetings, conferences, is that what --

SECRETARY POWELL: Yes. We are meeting regularly, as you would imagine. Because of some travels we all have, a lot of this will be done by telephone, but surely we will all be getting together again at the next period of time ahead. But I don't want to start getting into number of days or when the President might say. I just don't want to be precise. It's not something far into the future. We're pulling it together. Our consultation process is pretty much winding up.

And there's a logic to this from the President's April fourth speech, to my trip many of you were on, to Crown Prince Abdullah's visit, to President Mubarak, King Mohamed, King Abdallah, now Prince Saud coming back. And so there's logic to this as we have tried to get all of these thoughts collected. We are now at the point where we're pulling these all together, we're looking at the pros and cons of the various ideas that are out there, what is doable, what is possible, what the proper role is for the United States and the proper role for our international partners.

QUESTION: Thank you. If the US were to endorse the idea of a transitional state or provisional state, first of all, do you think that would be viable in the current territories that the Palestinians control? Second of all, would that have to come with some sort of a deadline for the transition to a full state? Because if not, wouldn't there be the threat of the Palestinians just remaining in limbo forever?

SECRETARY POWELL: Your questions are appropriate and relevant. I'm just not prepared to answer them today because those are the questions that we're dealing with and we'll have to answer in due course. It's not a dodge, but I just don't want to go ahead of where we are.

QUESTION: But by raising this as a possibility, as one of the things that's being discussed, isn't that in some way an implicit endorsement by the United States?

SECRETARY POWELL: No.

QUESTION: Prime Minister Sharon said on the Hill yesterday that he'd be willing to make papal compromises for peace, but he was not willing to make compromises for security, yet the administration wants to pursue sort of this two-tiered thing where you do the political solution while working on the security. Have you made headway in persuading Israel to do both at the same time?

SECRETARY POWELL: We want both peace, and of course peace has to include security. Prime Minister Sharon is the leader of a nation that elected him democratically and elected him to bring security to Israel, first and foremost, and to end this terror campaign that is inflicted upon the Israeli people. We understand that perfectly. As the President noted, we expect the Prime Minister to exercise a natural right for defense, his self-defense. But at the same time, the security situation is not improving. Terror continues. We saw another bombing yesterday and a bombing last week. So we believe that while we certainly want to see security - I would like to have seen security yesterday, last year - we have, at the same time, responsibility, we believe, to see what can be done to push the peace process along and to see if there is not some way of using the peace process to channel Palestinian anger, Palestinian terrorists, discredit them by offering the Palestinian people a hopeful future that is evidenced in an invigorated peace process. And so it's a difficult situation as we move forward, but we believe we have to move forward on a political element, a humanitarian and economic element, and a security element, and see what progress we can make. Because, remember, we took the first 16 months waiting for the security piece to come into place and it didn't come into place; the terror continues. And Israel has to respond to that terror. But at the same time, we believe it is appropriate to see how a political process can help end the attractiveness to some people of criminal terrorist activity and give the Palestinian people something to invest their energy and hopes in.

QUESTION: You may not have anything on this, because I asked Richard earlier about it. Do you know anything about reports that there have been more combatants of US origin arrested in Pakistan -- combatants of US origin, American -- American -- in connection with al-Qaida, and handed over to Pakistani authorities. They call them combatants of US origin. American -- yes. Or that Pakistan has detained and handed over to us.

SECRETARY POWELL: I haven't seen that report, but I think you're saying combatants that we have detained as unlawful combatants who might be American citizens. I'd have to yield to the intelligence guys or the Pentagon, who would get custody of such people. I don't have those reports with me.

QUESTION: In Whistler, are you going to discuss the international conference on the Middle East, and do you have more precise ideas over the time and the venue of this conference?

SECRETARY POWELL: I will probably share with my colleagues our thinking that such a meeting would be useful. Until the President makes his decision and communicates that decision, it would be premature to start talking about venue and time. But obviously I have ideas as to where and when.

QUESTION: Back on the idea of a temporary Palestinian state, did you -- did you specifically discuss this idea, you and the President, with Prime Minister Sharon? What was his reaction? This is sort of a compromise, it seems, between the Israeli and Arab positions on how to move forward.

SECRETARY POWELL: I'm searching my databank as to whether it was discussed in that meeting or in other meetings that the Prime Minister had. It isn't all that new and revolutionary a suggestion. The idea of an interim arrangement or provisional state has been out there all along. So I wouldn't -- and I've discussed it on previous occasions with Prime Minister Sharon and with others. So I hope the level of interest being shown in it doesn't create the impression that this is something new, miraculous, never been discussed before. It's been a pretty consistent element in all of the discussions about how to move forward in the Middle East.

QUESTION: Short question about North Korea. On Monday you said that you expect soon a meeting with the North Koreans. Can we expect that this month, or during the work-up (inaudible)?

And the second question is, what's the biggest obstacle? You pointed out the four key elements that are the obstacles. What is the biggest obstacle?

SECRETARY POWELL: We pointed out four areas that we wanted to discuss with the North Koreans that we believe we need progress on. I would not want to single out any one of those four as the key obstacle. I think they are all issues that we have to discuss with the North Koreans, and there may be other issues we want to discuss with them.

But we are looking for a way forward, and we will be meeting with them --

QUESTION: This month?

SECRETARY POWELL: We will be meeting with them this month, but I haven't said where. I never want to take you guys down a wrong path.

QUESTION: At Pyonyang, right?

SECRETARY POWELL: Huh?

QUESTION: That in North Korea.

SECRETARY POWELL: I can't answer that. We'll be meeting with them this month somewhere just to keep this process moving along. There was a report the other day out of North Korea that the United States has not responded. We will be responding in the very near future, and then we will see what the step is after that, but I don't want to mislead you and take you down a wrong path.

QUESTION: What's going on in India and Pakistan, Mr. Secretary?

QUESTION: Are you next on the duty roster?

SECRETARY POWELL: Let me put it in perspective for you. We are pleased at the progress that has been made, especially in the last four or five days. And a lot has happened over the last three weeks, really, beginning when it became clear that it needed a solid assurance directly from Pakistan that they would be ending incursions across the line of control and they would be taking other actions to reduce that kind of activity or the potential for that kind of activity. Those assurances were communicated by us directly to the Indians.

And then we began to wait for appropriate responses to be put in place. We then wanted to make sure that the Indians needed to have the assurance that this was not just a temporary cessation, but it would be a permanent cessation of activity across the line of control. Meanwhile, we had put in place a series of visits, and it really has been internationalized--Chris Patten, Jack Straw, my UK colleague, and then Rich Armitage was set up weeks ago to go this past weekend. And then Don Rumsfeld, who was in the region. He and I discussed it and it seemed like a very useful thing for him to continue his trip and be part of the continuing rush of senior diplomats into the region.

And then things began to pick up speed when we got a sense of the Indian response. And then when Rich was there last weekend, he was able to give them assurances from President Musharraf that it would be a permanent cessation. And in response to that, in a phone call I made to Foreign Minister Singh over the weekend, they announced that they found what the Pakistanis said to be an important step forward. That was their public statement on Sunday, I believe it was, after I talked to Singh and as Rich was putting all this in place.

And then within a day or two they made it known that they had picked their new High Commissioner to go back to Pakistan at some point in the future. They were moving their fleets back toward home base, and they were restoring commercial air traffic. You may remember that that is one of the first things they shut down, and removing their High Commissioner. So it's kind of the exact, you know, last -- well, LIFO, for those of you who took an accounting course sometime ago. They took these steps that were really the first time a step was going down rather than going up. So we have received all that with great interest and with satisfaction. Now what we have to do is steadily move forward to keep these steps going in the right direction, recognizing that for this to keep moving in the right direction both sides will have to take steps and both sides recognize that as we de-escalate, hopefully can keep the de-escalation going. A dialogue will have to take place in due course between the two sides, starting out at some level, but ultimately facilitating a discussion between the two sides on Kashmir. And we are committed to that dialogue, and I've said that to both the Indian and the Pakistani side. So I'm glad to see that political and diplomatic efforts have worked and it's been a great and, frankly, international effort where we all coordinated with one another. The Almaty conference in Kazakhstan where (inaudible) and President Ziang Zemin spoke to both leaders. Before that conference, all of us had spoken to one another to make sure consistent messages were being given. So let's hope we're moving in the right direction. I would not, however, expect to see a total withdrawal in the immediate future. I think it probably will take some months. It may well be after the elections in September before you really get back to the status quo.

QUESTION: Have you gotten any feedback from allies about the President's idea of a pre-empted approach on fighting terrorism and/or are you expecting to sort of feel out the allies on how they do that?

SECRETARY POWELL: I haven't had any conversations with my G-8 colleagues about the President's speech. I don't think they view that as totally surprising. It's reflective of our policy and the statements the President has made in the past that we have to go after these dangers and not wait for these dangers to come at us. I think he expressed it in an especially effective and forceful way in his West Point speech, and I'm sure it will be a part of the discussions we will have over the next two days with my G-8 colleagues. Okay. Did you have one? You had one, didn't you?

QUESTION: Just to follow up on India and Pakistan, did you make any commitment -- did you make any commitment to Pakistan that you would be moving -- and what -- what ways would be trying to facilitate this dialogue? Right. It appears that Pakistan expects that, as a result of your intervention into this conflict, they are expecting down the road some sustained US involvement in helping resolve the Kashmir conflict between India and Pakistan. What sort of commitments have you given to Pakistan to continue to keep the pressure on this area?

SECRETARY POWELL: I've told President Musharraf and I've told Foreign Minister Singh, and the President, I think, has also communicated, in his conversations, that we do plan to stay engaged. We just don't want to see any end to the current crisis and then wait for the same problem to raise the crisis again at some point in the future. So we'll stay engaged. But the principal role we'll be playing is a facilitator of dialogue. We don't intend to mediate this dispute. The dispute can only be resolved between the two parties. To the extent that we now have, frankly, excellent relations, US to Pakistan and US to India, I think that the United States, working with our international partners as we have in this current crisis, we can play a role in facilitating a dialogue between the two sides. And I have committed to them that we would stay engaged to see if we can bring that about and then stay with it. And that is our intention, and I'm already starting to structure our thinking and structure my staff to participate in such efforts.

QUESTION: Was that a factor in President Musharraf 's decision, saying that he would call to a permanent end to the excursions?

SECRETARY POWELL: I don't want to put words or thoughts in President Musharraf 's mind, except to say that I think he was pleased that we had made such (inaudible). Okay? All right?