Interview on ABC's Nightline With Ted Koppel

SECRETARY POWELL: That's simply not true, Ted. When you look at the coalition we put together after 9/11, we put together a powerful international coalition, and the President made the point to that coalition that I'm not just doing this for Afghanistan or because the United States was attacked; I'm doing it for that, but also because terrorism is a threat to all of us.

And this coalition is continuing now with great resilience and strength long after people thought it might come apart because that threat is real and because the United States is a leader in dealing with that threat.

I can't think of a better example of multilateralism. The United States is working with the United Nations, we're working with the European Union, we're working with NATO, with the OAS, with the ANZUS organization, with all of our great partnerships in order to go after terrorism, because we can't do it alone no matter how great a superpower we are and the threat is directed at all of us.

MR. KOPPEL: Let's start getting specific. If indeed -- in fact, maybe I should begin with a question. We've had conflicting stories coming out of this building over the last week or two suggesting, first of all, that there is a plan already being formulated for an attack against Iraq; more recently, a story in USA Today saying no, we're only going to do it if indeed the Iraqis give us sufficient provocation.

Is that story true?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, you haven't had any conflicting reports out of this Department over the last week or two.

MR. KOPPEL: I'm saying we're the ones making the conflicting reports.

SECRETARY POWELL: What we have consistently said is that the President has no plan on his desk to invade Iraq at the moment, nor has one been presented to him, nor have his advisors come together to put a plan to him. He is in the most intense consultations with his friends and allies around the world. He has discussed this issue with his friends at the G-8 meeting in Canada recently. A steady stream of Arab leaders have been through the Oval Office in recent weeks, and the President has spoken to them.

He is aware of the feelings of our friends with respect to Iraq. He is working very hard within the United Nations. I spent a year on his behalf putting in place "smart sanctions" so that we're not hurting the Iraqi people; we're just constraining the ability of the Iraqi Government to develop weapons of mass destruction. That was multilateral, not unilateral. He has called for the inspectors to go in as part of the UN regime. That is multilateral, not unilateral.

But he also believes -- and perhaps no one else agrees with him, but I think most people do; they just are a little reluctant to how to get to this end -- that the Iraqi people would be better served with a different regime, not with a regime that gasses its own people, gasses its neighbors, and are developing the worst kinds of weapons that will be more of a threat to its neighbors and regional stability than it will be to the United States.

The United States could stand back and say we're going to ignore it. We can't ignore it, because we are concerned about our friends and allies and our interests around the world, and because we are the leader of a world that wants to be free.

MR. KOPPEL: When you talk about the consultation with Arab states, with our friends in Europe, with the G-8, no question there's been consultation, but from what we're hearing from them and from their representatives, the consultation has tended to involve disagreement on their part, frustration on their part. They sense that the United States should not do this, should not move militarily against Iraq.

Any reason to believe that they're going to change their minds on that?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, we'll see what their minds are when the President finally puts in front of them something that might suggest military action. So far, he has not. He is interested in their perspective. He has listened carefully to them. He has made it clear to all of our friends and allies, and to those who are not friends and allies of us, that he believes regime change is the right way to go.

When we talk to our friends, that's being multilateral. It doesn't necessarily mean we will get them all to agree with us or that we are at the mercy of their agreement and their consensus.

Sometimes we have strong disagreements -- the International Criminal Court is one -- where we believe we have a principled position. It is an isolated position. Most of the rest of the world believes that the International Criminal Court is no threat to any US serviceperson or US political official. We have a different point of view.

And when we send our young volunteers around the world, in numbers that no other nation sends its young people around the world, we have worldwide responsibilities. We're glad to meet those responsibilities, but we want those young men and women to be subject to the constitutional processes of the United States Government and our Constitution, and that's how -- that's why their parents entrusted them to our care.

And so it is a real issue for us, and we tried to find a solution within the UN over the last couple of weeks. We found a temporary bridge for a year or so, and we'll be working with our friends to make the case to them that we should receive some special understanding of our concerns, just as we are listening to their concerns.

When you have a principled position, you should fight for it, you should try to present the case, and when they have a principled position, we should listen to them. But we shouldn't go along with the consensus just because it is the consensus if we believe it is inconsistent with our principled position.

MR. KOPPEL: Mr. Secretary, we're going to take a short break. Back with Secretary Powell in just a moment.

(Commercial break.)

MR. KOPPEL: And we're back once again at the State Department with Secretary of State Colin Powell.

You're heading up to New York tomorrow to meet with the Russians, the Europeans, the UN, some of our Arab friends. Do you have a policy toward -- or a Middle Eastern policy that is somewhat more concretely formed than anything we've seen over the past few months?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think the President put down a rather concrete policy on the 24th of June in that very, very important speech, where he laid out a vision for two states living side by side in peace. Many people focused on the first part of his speech, where he said it is difficult to work with Chairman Arafat any longer because he hasn't produced.

MR. KOPPEL: Although he didn't mention Chairman Arafat by name.

SECRETARY POWELL: He didn't mention him by name, but I don't think the implication was lost. But in the back part of his speech, he really talked about a Palestinian state, the end of Israeli occupation, the end of Israeli settlement activity, the return of revenues to the Palestinian leadership for the benefit of the Palestinian people, their money being returned. And he spoke of achieving this in a relatively short period of time, three years, and he said he put himself and his government to the task of achieving that goal.

MR. KOPPEL: You reportedly have a memo on your desk -- it may not be there anymore -- but one which suggested, in effect, that Arafat be kicked upstairs to a sort of presidency in -- and that there be a prime minister of the Palestinians.

Is that something, first of all, that you support, and is it something that you think is workable in the near future?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think it's up to the Palestinian people to ultimately decide what role Chairman Arafat should play, if any. But we have made it clear, and I have made it clear to my interlocutors, both in the Arab world and within the European community and in the UN, that I think we would all be well served and this process would be well served if we had new leaders identified to us by the Palestinian people who would come with authority and responsibility to act.

MR. KOPPEL: But is that formula of kicking Arafat upstairs something you would support?

SECRETARY POWELL: I do not have a paper on my desk that is as precise as that particular formulation.

MR. KOPPEL: But if someone were to propose that to you --

SECRETARY POWELL: It is not for me to determine where Chairman Arafat will end up. But it's clear --

MR. KOPPEL: No, but it's not -- forgive me, Mr. Secretary. It's not for you or the President of the United States to select the Palestinian leadership either, which is a point you've conceded. But, in effect, you've done that nevertheless. So in that context, I'm asking would that formula work for you, if he were kicked upstairs?

SECRETARY POWELL: It is a formula I would be more than willing to consider. But I'm more interested in seeing whether or not the person emerges who is able to operate with authority and able to put in place systems that work, able to put in place a security apparatus that works, that will show transparency with respect to the use of money made available to the Palestinian community and the Palestinian leadership, and will be able to do things that the current leadership has not been able to do.

MR. KOPPEL: A few months ago, the President warned the Israeli Prime Minister that he had to get his troops out of the West Bank. He was talking about it in terms of the very short term. One had the sense at that moment that he was talking about days or weeks. It's been months. The troops are still there.

There is a danger, as you well know, that when you issue a warning like that and it's ignored, the next time you give a warning, no one's going to pay any attention either. Why has the President not followed up?

SECRETARY POWELL: There was an intervening series of events. The President did say that on the 4th of April, and it took some weeks, longer than we would have liked, but the troops did come back from their total occupation of those Palestinian cities that they were occupying.

We also got Mr. Arafat released from his confinement in the Muqatta in Ramallah and we broke the siege at the Church of the Nativity. And we had a process moving forward again. But what happened? The suicide bombers came out again. Suicide bombers every single day for almost a week, settlers being killed in their homes. And Prime Minister Sharon, seeing that, sent troops back in. It's a different kind of presence that they have there now. It's not quite the occupation that we saw in April, but they are back in those same cities. Sooner or later, that occupation has to come to an end.

MR. KOPPEL: You will no doubt be asked again when you meet with the Jordanian Foreign Minister and with the Egyptian Foreign Minister if and when you are going to pressure the Israelis to do anything. At the moment, it does seem as though US policy toward the Middle East is focused entirely on pressuring the Palestinians, with very little visible pressure on the Israelis, for example on the issue of the settlements.

SECRETARY POWELL: We will press the Israelis on the issue of the settlements, on occupation, on return of revenue. We know what has to be done. The Israelis know what will be expected of them. But it is difficult, exceptionally difficult, to move down this road when every time you start down this road you see 10, 20, 25 innocent people blown up in a shopping center, blown up on a bus. We can't overstate the inherent difficulty caused by these sorts of terrorist activities.

Now, on the other side, they would say, is not the occupation part of the problem? All of these problems are intertwined, and it's going to take a long time to separate this all out and get us on a track toward peace, but it must begin with the end of terrorism.

MR. KOPPEL: Mr. Secretary, I thank you very much. Always a pleasure talking to you.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you, Ted.