Interview on Fox News Sunday with Brit Hume

MR. HUME: Joining us now to discuss tsunami relief and Iraqi elections is Secretary of State, Colin Powell. Mr. Secretary, welcome, and thanks for being with us today from Nairobi, Kenya.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you, Brit.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, I want to ask you first of all about the treaty, the agreement that's being signed there, and whether and how you think it may affect what you have described as genocide going on in Darfur.

SECRETARY POWELL: This is an historic agreement, where the SPLM, the southern movement, has finally, after 20 years of conflict, come into a comprehensive peace agreement with the government in Khartoum. And now the peace can begin. This war hopefully will be coming to an end, although there are many difficulties ahead. And I hope that as a result of this agreement, the two sides working together can work together to solve the problem of Darfur.

Last September, I declared that genocide had occurred and was probably still occurring. I did it on the basis of teams that went in at that time. And since then, I have not had teams in, but the UN has sent its commission in to investigate this, and we're expecting a statement from the UN next week as to whether or not it makes an international judgment that genocide is taking place in Darfur.

MR. HUME: Do you have any reason, Mr. Secretary, to believe that the genocide that you believed and said was occurring has stopped?

SECRETARY POWELL: I have no basis to believe that, but I have no basis to make a fresh judgment now, in the absence of my sending new teams in, because what we did was made our judgment, and then in accordance with the Genocide Conventions, give that to the Security Council, which then launched their commission.

But certainly, the attacks against people, the moving of people off their homelands, forcing them into camps, that is continuing.

So the situation continues to be very, very grim, whether you decide it is genocide or not.

MR. HUME: Now, you --

SECRETARY POWELL: The issue is not what you call it, it is what is happening in the region, and that's what we're working to do.

MR. HUME: Of course, one of the people that you're dealing with there is the representative -- are the representatives of the government. Have you made known your sentiments to them? Obviously, they are to a considerable measure responsible here.

SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, I have, and I've done it repeatedly. And we talked about it again yesterday.

MR. HUME: And what did you say?

SECRETARY POWELL: I said that it is necessary for us to find a peaceful solution to the problem in Darfur through political reconciliation between the government and the rebels, and also bringing the Jingaweit under control and to do everything we can to stop rebel attacks as well.

Both sides are at fault. It's not just the government. We have rebels who are out there who are creating trouble that the government initially responded to. But this is all sort of interesting but beside the fact. The fact is that whatever you call it, whoever is responsible, there are people who are dying, people who are being pushed out of their homes, out of their villages and pushed into camps. And we want that situation to end. The government has a responsibility, as do the rebels.

MR. HUME: You said this week, Mr. Secretary, upon visiting the area stricken by the Indian Ocean tsunami, that you had never, with all you've seen, seen anything like that. What was it that you saw that you could describe for the audience that made you say that? We know the size of it, we've seen the pictures. What did you see?

SECRETARY POWELL: We landed at Banda Aceh and you saw what happened there in northern Sumatra. It looked like a little piece of Hiroshima from 1945. The entire city, or a good section of the city just scraped clean, as if an army of bulldozers had simply flattened everything for several miles inland and several miles wide. Total, complete devastation, homes, schools, bridges, roads. But above all, people, thousands and thousands of people in the midst of all this destruction, were drowned in their homes or swept out to sea to be washed back up later on. It's something I've never seen before.

MR. HUME: Mr. Secretary, there's now a considerable American military presence there, doing what, from all accounts, is very indispensable work. How long do you anticipate, and how large a commitment will we be making militarily in that region, sir?

SECRETARY POWELL: I can't give a precise answer. Right now, we have some roughly 14- to 15,000 troops. The ships can't stay on station forever, because there are other requirements and missions, nor do I think we will need those ships with their embarked helicopters forever.

Hopefully, that roads will be opened and international organizations will be able to use those roads as the way to deliver supplies, as opposed to using helicopter transport. And after a while, our patrol planes won't be needed. But I would say for another several weeks, but I really can't make a firm prediction.

But you're absolutely right. Our troops are doing a great job. Our USAID officials, our diplomats, our private organizations, they're all doing a great job.

MR. HUME: I want to turn to Iraq, sir, if I may. Your old friend and first Bush Administration colleague, Brent Scowcroft, said this week that he now believes that the elections in Iraq, far from having a healing effect, held what he considered great potential for deepening the conflict. What's your reaction to that assessment?

SECRETARY POWELL: I'll give you a brief answer, Brit, and then I have to leave to get to a signing ceremony for this historic accord.

I know Brent's concerned, and we all are concerned that this insurgency is going to continue. But the alternative cannot be, let's just keep postponing elections, or not have elections. We need to give the Iraqi people this opportunity on the 30th of January to speak out for how they wish to be led. We're going to have to defeat this insurgency in the field, with coalition troops, with Iraqi troops, and hopefully, with an elected government that the people will now turn to as their government, not just a government appointed by the coalition or appointed by the United Nations. And I hope these pieces coming together, coalition military pressure, Iraqi increasing military pressure, and an elected government, will start to defeat this insurgency.

But we have no illusions that the insurgency is going to continue until it is defeated. And we have the concerns that General Scowcroft had, and we will be addressing all of our efforts toward making sure that that worst-case scenario he pointed out does not occur.

MR. HUME: One last question --

SECRETARY POWELL: Thanks very much, Brit, and I've got to run.

MR. HUME: All right, thank you, Mr. Secretary. Thank you very much.

SECRETARY POWELL: Bye-bye.