Interview on CNN Late Edition With Wolf Blitzer

MR. BLITZER:  Mr. Secretary, welcome back to Late Edition.  Thanks very much for joining us.  You're in Turkey right now.  Three Turkish citizens are being held prisoner by, apparently, by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Iraqi terrorist.  What do you say to the Turkish Government that clearly is concerned about what's going on in Iraq?

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, the President just met with Prime Minister Erdogan and obviously this came up.  And we assured the Prime Minister that we were doing everything we could to secure their safe release.  Once again, this shows that we're dealing with a terrible terrorist organization led by Mr. al-Zarqawi that doesn't care about human life, and that does not care about the Iraqi people. 

The Iraqi people just want to be left in peace so that later this week they can see the full transfer of sovereignty and be responsible for their own destiny.  And Mr. Zarqawi and other evil terrorists such as him are trying to keep that from happening.  And they're taking innocent Turkish civilians, in this case, as a way to make their case.  And they will not succeed.  We cannot yield to this kind of terrorism.  And our heart goes out to the families of these individuals and we hope it will be possible to rescue them, but it's a dangerous situation.

MR. BLITZER:  It looks like these operations, these insurgent or terrorist operations in Iraq right now, are becoming increasingly better coordinated.  Do you get that sense? 

SECRETARY POWELL:  There certainly is a level of coordination, in my judgment, and hopefully we can penetrate whatever system is operating there, whatever command and control system is at work.  Nevertheless, we expected that we would see this increased -- an increase in terrorist and insurgent activity as we got closer to the 1st of the month and the changeover.  And it might continue for a period after that.  But I know that our military are hard at work and we're building up the Iraqi security forces as fast as we can.

What's impressive is that the new leadership, President Sheikh Ghazi and Prime Minister Allawi, are not shrinking back from the challenge.  In fact, they are speaking out with strength and forcefulness and determination not to let these bandits and terrorists keep them from the goal of putting in place a stable government for the people of Iraq, a government that will rest on a solid foundation of democracy and freedom.

MR. BLITZER:  Prime Minister Allawi is now suggesting perhaps that elections be delayed, scheduled for next January, as you well know, because of the security situation.  Is that a good idea?

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, I think it's too early to determine whether that's necessary or a good idea.  I think he was speculating on the possibility that if they don't get the security situation under adequate control it might be hard to have the elections at that time.  But those are the dates we're still shooting for, the dates that the UN resolution is based on, but we'll certainly be discussing this with the Prime Minister as we move along. 

MR. BLITZER:  What about martial law being imposed in Iraq, as some top Iraqi leaders are now suggesting may be necessary?

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, there were some rumors and some reports earlier this week that that might be under consideration, but I think the Prime Minister dampened down that reporting.  He had suggested it in an aside, but I think that's been dampened down.

Obviously, any government has to consider what emergency powers they have and might be needed at a particular point in time, but I'm not aware of any movement right now to move to some state of marital law or anything like martial law.

MR. BLITZER:  Do you expect the NATO Allies, Mr. Secretary, to go ahead and approve the request by the Iraqi government, Prime Minister Allawi, to at least start training Iraqi security forces?

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, we'll certainly know tomorrow when NATO meets, but every indication I have now is that NATO is coming together to say that they would be willing to provide police and military training to Iraqi forces.  Exactly how that would be done, where it would be done, all of that remains to be determined.  But I think the Alliance is coming together on that issue.

MR. BLITZER:  Is France still holding out for something, as far as you know? 

SECRETARY POWELL:  On this issue, I don't know.  When I get to Istanbul this evening and have a chance to meet with Ambassador Burns and my other foreign minister colleagues, we'll have a better understanding of that.  But right now, I sense a consensus is developing to respond in a positive way to Mr. Allawi's request. 

MR. BLITZER:  For the first time in our CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll that came out this past week, a majority of Americans now believe going to war against Saddam Hussein in Iraq was a mistake.  54 percent say it was a mistake sending troops to Iraq, 44 percent say it wasn't a mistake.  This is about the opposite of what occurred only two weeks earlier in polling.

How concerned are you that at least a big chunk of the American public now is thinking you made a mistake? 

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, of course, we are concerned with numbers like that, but you have to put them in context.  The last several weeks have been difficult weeks for us.  We've seen a number of bombings.  We've seen these insurgents and terrorists try to stop a peaceful changeover that will take place in a few days time.  And when you see these scenes day after day on your television set, it will affect the attitudes of the American people.

I hope that as the Iraqi government takes over, the American people see that they are taking over and they now have sovereignty and they are now in charge of their country and moving their country in the right way, and as the security situation gets under control, and as the American people see that we are going to have elections and those elections will bring in a representative government, I think in due course they will see that we have made the right decision and what we are doing is noble work, and those numbers will change.

The President says the world is safer now as a result of what has happened in Iraq.  Listen precisely to what he said this week:

"I do believe the world is a safer place and becoming a safer place.  I know that a free Iraq is going to be a necessary part of changing the world."

Yet, in our CNN/USA Today poll this past week, we asked, "Did the war with Iraq make the U.S. safer from terrorism?"  Only 37 percent said yes, 55 percent said no.  This is almost a complete flip-flop, 180 degrees the exact opposite answers back in December, the last time we asked this same question.

I'll ask you:  Why is the world safer today than it was before the war in Iraq?

SECRETARY POWELL:  Because we increasingly are rounding up al-Qaida leaders.  We find that the Saudis have been able to kill some recently, some dealt with in Algeria.  Other places they're on the run, the remaining elements of al-Qaida in Afghanistan.  And so we have taken out a lot of the leadership structure of al-Qaida and we have the whole world unified going after these terrorist organizations.

That doesn't mean that the problem is solved, and terrorist organizations are responding as they come under assault.  The United States, fortunately, has not seen anything like the terrorist attacks of 2001.  And so terrorism is a real and present danger, but I think that we have made inroads against this terrorist threat and I think that's what the President was clearly referring to. 

MR. BLITZER:  There is a top CIA official, a counterterrorism official, who has written a book going only by the name "Anonymous."  Among other things, he says this: 

"U.S. leaders refused to accept the obvious: We are fighting a worldwide Islamic insurgency, not criminality or terrorism, and our policy and procedures have failed to make more than a modest dent in enemy forces." 

I assume you know who this CIA counterterrorism analyst is, but do you agree with him?

SECRETARY POWELL:  I don't know who he is.  I haven't read his book.  I think what we are seeing are an insurgency in Iraq and terrorist activities elsewhere in the world.  I think what we are also seeing is that the world is coming together in a clear understanding that we have to deal with these kinds of terrorist organizations and not just write it all off to Muslim extremism.

There are some people here who just don't want to see progress.  They are not acting in the name of Islam.  They are working against Islam.  They are violating the basic tenets of Islam.  And what we have to do is to continue to bring the world together in this effort to defeat this kind of thinking and to defeat these individuals.  But I don't know who "Anonymous" is and can't really comment on his book because I haven't read it. 

MR. BLITZER:  A couple of technical questions on the June 30th handover.  Will U.S. troops in Iraq -- serving in Iraq -- be immune from any Iraqi laws?  In other words, will they only be subject to U.S. military considerations?

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, there is an order that is being worked out between the new Iraqi interim government and Ambassador Bremer during the next several days, Number 17 as it's called, which will grant those kinds of immunities.  It's anticipated that such immunities were going to be required.  The UN resolution and the letters that I exchanged with the Iraqi Prime Minister anticipated that this will be required.  And it would cover from now until an elected government comes in place, and then we can work out the normal arrangements of the SOFAs and other agreements of the kind that we have with most nations around the world.

I don't know whether or not Ambassador Bremer has finished his work on this with the interim government designate and whether it's ready to be issued or not.

MR. BLITZER:  One final question.  Saddam Hussein -- when do you hand him over to the Iraqis? 

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, that's also being worked out, but handover has two aspects to it.  There is the legal transfer of who has legal authority and responsibility for him and then there is physical custody, who can best protect him but also best keep him from escaping.  And all those items are being worked out.  I would expect that legal custody would be handed over shortly, but physical custody would remain in our hands for the foreseeable future.

MR. BLITZER:  Mr. Secretary, good luck to you, good luck on the NATO summit and especially good luck when you head to Sudan in the coming days.

SECRETARY POWELL:  Thank you very much, Wolf.

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