Interview by Blanquita Cullum on "News Beat"

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, it is my first time, BQ. I hope it's not my last, though.

MS. CULLUM: No, absolutely not. I mean, I won't tell them how we met in Argentina.

SECRETARY POWELL: Are you really?

MS. CULLUM: Well, you know, with Holly Coors. That was so much fun.

SECRETARY POWELL: It was about 12 years ago and I was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff traveling through South America and Argentina and Buenos Aires, and I walked into the Embassy and there you were at a reception.

MS. CULLUM: That's right.

SECRETARY POWELL: Wearing a green dress, as I recall.

MS. CULLUM: That is exactly right. We were so honored to see you there and just be able to be next to you because so many of us have so much admiration for you.

This has been a very important day, kind of a hard day, I guess, when you think about the consequences of this intelligence committee's report. There has been a lot of concern that the intelligence community really let you, let the President down, because there wasn't the correct information there coming out of Iraq.

What is your thought on that?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I haven't read the report yet. It's just arrived over here. But we welcome the committee's report, and based on what I know of it and in my conversations with the President, we know that reform of the intelligence system is going to be necessary because there were some serious failures here that we've got to get on top of.

We have great people within our intelligence community that work very hard and we've just got to make sure we've got them in the best environment to do the best possible job for the nation.

MS. CULLUM: When it all started happening, I remember I had many intelligence reporters on the program, and it seems that there was kind of a "group think" about this. It was not only the intelligence from the United States but from the United Kingdom and from other areas of the world that really believed that there were weapons of mass destruction.

Was there a failure or was there, you know, failure in that kind of "group think"?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, you know, even the -- from what I've been able to derive from the report just by looking at a few summaries of it, even the report concludes that it was more than just the United States, there was international "group think," as they call it, where we all were looking at the same data and foreign intelligence services, some of the UN agencies and the United States all came to the conclusion that not only was there an intent to develop these weapons and to have them, which is not disproven -- that is clearly the case -- and the capability to produce such weapons -- that is not disproven -- and a history of using such weapons -- that is not disproven, in fact, that's substantiated and it's a historical fact -- where we fell down, apparently, was in believing that there was an active stockpile of these weapons that was out there.

Now, the Survey Group that's out there is continuing to do its work and it may yet turn up something, but what the committee seems to be saying is that there wasn't sufficient evidence to reach the conclusion that stockpiles were there.

MS. CULLUM: The concern that I have is with Saddam Hussein now being held in custody and the change that's happened in Iraq, clearly for the better. How does Saddam Hussein then be held accountable for what he has done? He certainly is a criminal. And does this kind of get him off the hook?

SECRETARY POWELL: Oh, I don't think so. Not at all. The Iraqi people will want to know why he gassed his own people. The new Iraqi leaders will want to know about mass graves that are being uncovered all over Iraq. The new Iraqi people -- new Iraqi government, rather, will want to know how the money was spent over those years and for what purposes and who paid for all these palaces and for what purposes. So I think there are many crimes that he will be charged with and for which he will have to stand before the bar of justice.

MS. CULLUM: It's been a really tough political position also to deal with this issue of terrorism. You had Rockefeller saying today that Congress would not have authorized the war if they knew about these intelligence failures. Do you believe that's a fair and accurate statement to make?

SECRETARY POWELL: I can't answer that right now, frankly, because Senator Rockefeller had the same information the President had at the time and he says he wouldn't have voted for the war if he had had the information that he now thinks to be the accurate information. That's his judgment.

As I have said previously, I would certainly have to take another look at it and I'm not sure where any particular senator would have come out or whether the Senate as a whole would have voted for or against that resolution.

The fact of the matter is, though, they did vote for the resolution based on what they knew and what they thought and what the rest of the world thought; and as a result, a terrible dictator is gone, we don't have to debate weapons of mass destruction anymore because the individual responsible for them or for the programs or for having that intention is gone. Saddam Hussein is no longer in power. He's in jail and about to go on trial in due course here.

And so I think the right thing was done and this man has been removed. The Iraqi people now have a government of their own. We've returned full sovereignty. Our youngsters are still doing great work over there, but I hope that increasingly the Iraqi forces will be able to take on the responsibility for security and our folks can start coming home.

MS. CULLUM: You bet.

SECRETARY POWELL: And then the Iraqi people can elect a representative government and put together a solid democracy, which they seem to be committed to doing.

MS. CULLUM: And I know that you, with your incredible experience, want to make sure that the morale is not completely destroyed of those young men and women who have put their lives on the line.

SECRETARY POWELL: Absolutely. You know, soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines and State Department employees and FBI and CIA and employees from almost every federal department are working on this situation in Iraq, either by serving there or being back here backstopping those wonderful folks, and they're doing a terrific job for the American people, they're doing a terrific job for the Iraqi people. We should be so proud of them and we should honor every sacrifice that has been made in the cause of freedom, securing our peace here as well as securing peace in that part of that world.

MS. CULLUM: Absolutely. I wanted to talk to you about a couple of other locations and certainly I must ask you about the Sudan. That is, how are we going to deal with the problems that are going on in the Sudan?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, as you know, I was there last week along with Secretary General of the United Nations Kofi Annan, and we put some sharp demands before the Sudanese leaders: They had to take on these militias known as the Jingaweit that were terrorizing the countryside of Darfur; they had to allow humanitarian aid to flow without any interruptions or constraints.

We've seen a little bit of movement on their part. They seem to be starting to do the right thing, but we want more than just a start. We want them to really meet the demands that the international community has placed upon them.

I talked to Kofi Annan about an hour or so ago, and he and I are committed, and I think more and more members of the international community are committed, to doing everything we can to encourage and press the Sudanese Government to bring this violence under control, and we're also doing everything we can to make sure the international community provides the humanitarian assistance that these people deserve and need.

MS. CULLUM: Oh, absolutely. And now, of course, since I just have a little bit of time left, I can't let you go without talking to me about the situation in Israel right now with the fence. And the question that many people ask, and certainly now The Hague is implying that the fence is violating human rights, but the Israelis are saying that's really preventing more death.

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, it's a difficult issue and I haven't analyzed the opinion of The Hague court yet. But as you know, our position has been that it was not something that should have been referred to that court. And so we will analyze it and see what our position will be going forward from this point.

As you know, it is a nonbinding decision on the part of the court and we'll have to see the international reaction, the Israeli reaction, and study the details of the opinion. We didn't think it should have gone to the court in the first place.

MS. CULLUM: So, in other words, even if a decision is rendered, then it's not something that they have to adhere to; it's a strong recommendation?

SECRETARY POWELL: It is that. It is essentially is a judgment by the court but it's nonbinding and therefore it is something for the Israeli Government to examine and see what reaction they wish to have to it.

They are quite right, though. Since they have been able to put up the security fence, they've been able to cut down the number of people crossing over to conduct terrorist attacks. We have said to the Israelis that we have some problems with the route the fence has taken and I think they have been sensitive to our concerns and the concerns of their own courts, Israeli courts, that the fence is an adequate response to the security problem but it should not be used in a way that would prejudge the final configuration of a Palestinian state or intrude into Palestinian territory in a way that is not appropriate and, frankly, not just and fair to the Palestinian people.

MS. CULLUM: Well, as you know, we're so honored to have you on the program.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you very much.

MS. CULLUM: And we're proud of the great service that you provide for our country in so many ways through your really remarkable career. We really appreciate you joining us.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you very much, BQ. Have a good day.

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