Interview with Jonathan Beale of the BBC

SECRETARY RICE: Well, there's no doubt that there are still people, terrorists and some who would take the Iraqi people back to the old way of life under Saddam, who refuse to accept what Iraqis are clearly forcing and demonstrating, and that is that there is now a political process in which most Iraqis see their future and in which they are investing their future. The vote today is an important milestone. They will have elections in December for a permanent government. Every time the Iraqi people have been given an opportunity to express themselves politically, they've taken it. And so this train is moving forward. The insurgency can't ultimately survive without a political base, and even though there are a few violent men --

QUESTION: A few violent men?

SECRETARY RICE: A few violent men who can always wreak havoc, who can always grab the headlines, who can always kill innocent men, women and schoolchildren, the Iraqi political process goes on and the Iraqis are taking advantage of it.

QUESTION: But you have no idea, do you, how long this insurgency will go on for?

SECRETARY RICE: I don't think that we --

QUESTION: Years or decades?

SECRETARY RICE: Who knows? But I do think the Iraqis have cast their lot with the political process. And this insurgency will lose steam. The Iraqi security forces are getting better. They're getting trained. They are going to be capable of stepping up and taking on these violent people.

But let's give the Iraqis a vote of confidence and their due. They have gone out in large numbers to vote despite threats, they have gone out in large numbers to vote a second time despite large threats, and they will do so again in December.

QUESTION: But you're asking the American people and the British people to be patient. Isn't it fair to tell them how long you think this is going to take?

SECRETARY RICE: What is fair to ask of the British and the American people is that we support the Iraqis in this process so that we can finish this job so that Iraq can emerge with a foundation for a stable and prosperous democracy, one that will be a centerpiece of a different kind of Middle East and one that will be an antidote to the kind of terrorism and ideology of hatred that produces the people who blow up subways in London and knock down buildings with airplanes in New York and Washington.

QUESTION: We're fast approaching the really stark figure of nearly 2,000 U.S. personnel who have died in Iraq. British servicemen have also died. Thousands of Iraqis have died. You're one of the key chief architects of this war in Iraq. Do you feel in any way responsible for those deaths?

SECRETARY RICE: We mourn every death of every soldier -- British, American, others who have died, Iraqis who have died and are dying. But I also know that nothing of value is ever won without sacrifice and I know that when September 11th happened and the follow-on attacks happened in places like Bali, in places like Sharm el-Sheikh, indeed in London, here in London, that we have only way ahead, and that is to create new conditions to deal with the root causes of terrorism, which is this extremist ideology of hatred. They have a plan for the world --

QUESTION: But I'm asking do you feel responsible for these deaths as well because of what you ordered?

SECRETARY RICE: I feel responsible along with others who have made this decision for a policy that I believe will make our children safer. It will make us all more secure. I know that it is hard to go through difficult times like this and to watch the death and the carnage. But we also know that there was a time when it was unimaginable that you could have a Europe in which no one could imagine war again. I know that there will be a time in the Middle East when this ideology of hatred will be defeated and where we can look to a Middle East that doesn't produce suicide bombers who kill innocents.

QUESTION: Can I just talk about Iran? You're here in London to talk with Jack Straw and Tony Blair about the next steps in tackling Iran's nuclear program. What are the next steps?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, we had a very good step at the last Board of Governors meeting of the IAEA in that Iran got a very strong message that the international community expects them to deal with the just concerns of the international community about their nuclear activities. The Iranians need to go back to the negotiating table. They walked away from a very good set of negotiations with the EU-3. And they need to come to a conclusion that will allow them, if they wish civil nuclear energy, to do that without raising concerns in the international community. That's what they need to do. That was the message from the IAEA Board of Governors.

QUESTION: And the Security Council threat as well?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, the Security Council option is there at a time of our choosing.

QUESTION: But it's not there because the Russia -- you just got back from Moscow and they said they didn't want it referred to the Security Council.

SECRETARY RICE: But a number of states -- first of all, Russia abstained, and an abstention is a wait and see. And the wait and see was what will the Iranians do. Those who voted for a Security Council referral, if necessary, outnumbered those who voted against it. And so I am quite confident that when the time comes, there will be a referral, but our hope is that Iran will take advantage of this period of time instead to negotiate a reasonable approach.

QUESTION: And that referral could come next month at the next board meeting of the UN nuclear watchdog?

SECRETARY RICE: That referral will come at a time of our choosing when the diplomacy has run its course.

QUESTION: Britain said that Iran is backing the insurgency in Iraq through technical help. Do you agree with that proposition?

SECRETARY RICE: I have every reason to believe that the British are right about this. The Iranians --

QUESTION: You have evidence?

SECRETARY RICE: I trust the British on this issue because the British are operating in the south; they know the situation there. The British are our allies. I have every confidence in what the British are saying.

What we therefore need to do is to say to the Iranians you need now both to stop doing it and to demonstrate that you, Iran, are prepared to be good neighbors of the Iraqis, not to stir up an insurgency. Iran is a neighbor of Iraq and so we expect there to be relations between Iran and Iraq, but they should be transparent relations, they should be good neighborly relations. That's what we need to be saying to the Iranians.

QUESTION: You're taking Jack Straw to Alabama next week. A lot of British people will be rather puzzled the British Foreign Secretary is going to the deep South, wondering what the connection is there. Why are you taking Jack Straw there?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, first of all, I hope as Secretary of State to take some of my colleagues outside of Washington, D.C., so that they and the countries that they represent can have a feel for America, not just Washington, D.C. The South is my home. Birmingham is my home. Jack Straw is one of my closest colleagues and Britain one of our closest allies. And so I look forward to going to Birmingham. We're going to give talks, we're going to give speeches on democracy.

One thing that Birmingham represents is the fact that democracy is hard and the road can be long. Birmingham is a place where rights were denied for a long, long time, even into my lifetime, for people like me, for African Americans. And yet it's begun to overcome that history. It's a history that as a child I went to segregated schools. I didn't have a white classmate until we moved to Denver, Colorado. And yet here I am. I'm not Secretary of State. America has come a long way.

I think it speaks also, too, to the importance of multiethnic, multicultural democracies like the United States and like Great Britain. And I know that Jack is very interested in multiethnic societies. He himself represents a district that is heavily multiethnic. And so it gives us a chance to see these issues. We'll talk about these issues in a different venue outside of Washington. And I hope he'll enjoy the time in Birmingham.

QUESTION: Thank you very much.

SECRETARY RICE: Thank you.

2005/T15-18