(3:50 p.m. EST)
QUESTION:? Secretary Rice, thank you very much for the interview and your time is very much appreciated.
SECRETARY RICE:? It's good to be with you.
QUESTION:? As you head into the region to convene this trilateral meeting between President Abbas and the Israeli Prime Minister, we heard that a senior U.S. official has given a letter to President Abbas to say that the U.S. would not recognize the unity government even if they recognize or they abide by the Quartet conditions if Hamas is part of it. Is this the case?
SECRETARY RICE:? Oh, we have given no such letter to President Abbas. In fact, we have said that we will wait until the government is formed and then we'll make a decision about how to deal with that government. We have made clear that the Quartet principles continue for the United States, and indeed continue now for the Quartet, to be the basis on which we would judge any government.
But we are waiting to see when the government is formed. There isn't a government yet, and so I don't think we want to be in a position of making a decision about it before it's actually formed.
QUESTION:? That's true. We don't have a government, but we have the blueprint for a government. We know how many ministers are going to be in the government. We know who's going to be from Hamas and Fatah and independent. So if they implicitly recognize Israel, are you going to negotiate with this government?
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, I think it's extremely important that these principles, which are not principles just for the sake of principles, but when you think about it, if you are going to have a two-state solution you have to recognize the right of the other party to exist. If you are going to have negotiations for peace, you have to renounce violence. If you are going to be trusted with agreements, you have to honor past agreements. And so that's why the Quartet principles are there.
And I think, again, I don't want to try and make any decisions, any pronouncements. We've made our positions very clear to everyone, to the Palestinians, to the international community. But let's wait and see.
QUESTION:? (inaudible) do you welcome the first step, which is dissolving the current government?
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, what I do welcome is the calm that may come for the Palestinian people. Americans did not want to see Palestinians killing Palestinians. Palestinians should be living in peace among themselves and with Israel. And I know how difficult it was to watch the violence and to watch innocent people lose their lives. And so the calm, the hopes for a ceasefire between the Palestinian factions, that's something we very much support.
QUESTION:? In this regard, how much would you appreciate the Mecca agreement? Were you really involved, following up what's happening that led to this decision of --
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, we did not follow the details of what was going on in Mecca, although we appreciate very much what King Abdullah did. We appreciate that he wanted to bring peace among the Palestinian factions and that this could contribute to that. Because it is important that there be calm. It is important that innocent people not die. And so that was a very good thing. But we didn't get involved in every detail. I think that people knew our views, certainly knew that the Quartet principles were critical to the United States for the reasons I've stated.
QUESTION:? Now you are going to convene this meeting. What's going to be on the agenda? I mean, behind the niceties and tying to restart the peace process, what the actual agenda is going to look like?
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, I'm going to start by asking the parties what they think is on the agenda. It's been a long time since they've talked about broad issues. We have a roadmap and everyone needs to fulfill the conditions of the roadmap. But at the end of the roadmap, there is a destination called the Palestinian state, and I think it makes sense to begin to talk about how you get to that destination, what the Palestinian state will look like, what has to be achieved in order to get to a Palestinian state. And I hope that the agenda will include some of that discussion, but we're going to take it one step at a time.
It's important for me to recognize that Prime Minister Olmert and President Abbas have also established a bilateral channel in which they have made progress, and I hope that I can bring some energy, perhaps some ideas to get the parties talking about these issues. But the one thing that I don't want to do is to make this an American initiative, and so I hope that eventually the conversation will be joined by particularly the regional states because the Arab states have an important role to play in bringing about a Palestinian state.
QUESTION:? So does that mean you're going to go and listen and let the parties just tell you what they're going to come up with? We don't expect anything substantial from the --
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, this is a process and I've said I don't want to ask people to run before they start walking, because if people try to run, maybe somebody falls down and we don't get back to the discussions. It's been a long time since these issues were discussed. And the environment is somewhat more complex now because there is the dissolution of the current government, people are awaiting the formation of a new government, there's some uncertainty. So I recognize that we're going into a more complex set of circumstances than we might have anticipated when we set the meetings up.
But I've learned one thing about the Middle East: If you wait for the perfect circumstances, then you'll never get on the plane. And so I'm going to get on the plane and I'm looking forward to the discussions with the Prime Minister and the President, and I think they will be fruitful.
QUESTION:? Are we expecting that the final status issues -- Jerusalem, the refugees, the border, the settlements -- are we likely to put them on the table at least to get the parties talking about it?
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, all these issues, of course, are contained in the roadmap and at some point in time they're all issues that have to be addressed if there's going to be a Palestinian state. We also have to be able to address capacity of the Palestinian state to govern. We have to be able to address what the international community can do to support the development of a Palestinian state. We have to talk about what kind of security arrangements can assure both Israelis and Palestinians that they can indeed live together in peace.
So it's a big agenda, but I do think that we know that -- we know all of the things that have to be discussed and ultimately agreed if we're going to have the establishment of a Palestinian state.
QUESTION:? Absolutely. But also, I mean, part of it is trying to help the President Abbas by training Palestinian security service.
SECRETARY RICE:? Yes.
QUESTION:? If you're talking about this arrangement in terms of meeting security requirements, we've seen in that regard Congress has -- seems to be freezing $86 million that you required to help President Abbas. Would this undermine your efforts?
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, I'm talking to the Congress about this money to support the Palestinian security forces. The reason that it was frozen was that when a government was elected that did not accept the Quartet principles, then we had to relook at our assistance. But I just would like people to know that even during the time when the Hamas government was in power we made available health and humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people in larger amounts because we wanted very much to make sure that whatever was going on, that the Palestinian people didn't suffer. And so we've been giving assistance though nongovernmental organizations to the Palestinians in very large amounts. But this money for security forces we will have to make certain that it is used in a way that is -- that it is used by institutions that do support the principles that the United States stands for. But we're going to do our very best to help train the security forces of Abu Mazen.
QUESTION:? So to release this humanitarian aids to the Palestinian, you're saying you waited for the formation of the new government?
SECRETARY RICE:? No, on the humanitarian assistance, that has been ongoing. We have continued to give humanitarian assistance and we will continue to give humanitarian assistance. The United States doesn't use its humanitarian assistance for political purposes. We use it because of need. And we don't want to see malnutrition of Palestinian children or disease among Palestinian children, and so we've continued our humanitarian assistance.
On the security front, we need to, because of our own laws, make certain that that security assistance is going to forces that adhere to principles that the United States holds. That's true, by the way, of our security assistance around the world.
QUESTION:? Far be it persistent -- please allow me.
SECRETARY RICE:? Yes.
QUESTION:? What do you expect? I mean when you say, we have to wait for this formation of this government? Do you want them to spell out what the Quartet wants, or are you willing to accept that if they say we recognize, we respect all the previous agreement, that would be good enough to start the process?
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, one of the elements is to adhere to the existing agreements. That's an important element. But it is also important to recognize that you have to renounce violence. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that you're going to be part of a democracy and be part of a peace process but keep an option on violence.
We will see. I don't want to speculate. I don't want to try to make a decision before it's time to make a decision. But in terms of President Abbas, he is someone who has respected the international agreements that the Palestinians have signed. In his role as the head of the PLO, in his role as the President of the Authority, he's made very clear that these are principles that he accepts. He's made very clear and is known for his belief in nonviolence.
And so I think this is something that we really want to preserve. It would be a mistake not to have discussions with President Abbas and not to promote and support discussions between President Abbas and the Israelis.
QUESTION:? (In Arabic.)
(Break.)
QUESTION:? (In Arabic.) If we go back to the mediation, we've seen the Saudis and the Iranians playing a big role in terms of the Palestinians, also in Lebanon. I want to know how much do you -- how do you evaluate this process?
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, you have to evaluate this process by the outcomes. That's really the point. We welcome anyone who wants to contribute to a Middle East in which there is democracy free of terror, in which extremism is not promoted and accepted. And in Lebanon the support for the democratically elected Government of Lebanon is the most important element of any policy. Prime Minister Siniora and his government were elected. They did have the parliamentary majority to put together this government. There needs to be an international tribunal that can make certain that those who killed Prime Minister Rafik Hariri come to justice.
And so any agreement, any mediation, has to be judged by whether or not it is supported by that government and its goals. It's really not for us to say whether these mediations are helpful; it's for these forces, these democratic forces to say whether they're helpful.
QUESTION:? But some who criticize the U.S. Administration are saying basically the others are stepping into a gap that you could have filled because you refuse to talk to Iran and to Syria.
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, first of all, we would not be able obviously to talk to Hamas. I think it's a good thing that the Saudi King tried to bring about and perhaps has brought about some calm between Palestinians, because we hope calm, whatever the case, that calm will continue.
But we have talked to the Syrians many times in the past. We have diplomatic relations with Syria.
QUESTION:? That's not really --
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, this isn't -- well, actually, Colin Powell was there, Rich Armitage was there, Bill Burns when he was assistant Secretary for NEA, for the Middle East, was there. The fact is that this is about behavior and if Syria is inclined to or wants to play a stabilizing role in the Middle East, to stop the terrorists that are crossing their territory into Iraq, to agree that the international tribunal has to go forward in Lebanon, to support the Palestinian reconciliation on the basis of the renunciation of terror, it would be greatly welcomed. The problem is that we haven't seen evidence of that.
And on Iran, I offered to change 27 years of American policy toward Iran. We have had no contact, so it's not this Administration that's had no contact with Iran. We don't have diplomatic relations with Iran going back to the time when Iran occupied our Embassy and held our diplomats hostage for hundreds of days. Now, I offered to reverse 27 years of that policy and to talk to the Iranians along with the other members of the EU-3 and the Permanent Five of the UN at any time, any place, if Iran would simply first do what the entire international community is asking them to do. So I think -- that's to suspend their enrichment and reprocessing on their nuclear program. So I don't think the question is why won't we talk to Tehran. I would ask why won't Tehran talk to us.
QUESTION:? Quick question, (inaudible.) But also I wanted to ask you about the tribunal. When you were in -- I mean, you've always been supportive of setting up international tribunal. Would you be willing to use Chapter 7 in the UN to allow you to set up the tribunal?
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, we have to get the tribunal done. This is one of the most important elements of Lebanese reconciliation of coming to terms with this horrible tragedy, and I think we have to keep an open -- keep our options open on how we get it there. But now the Lebanese have, of course, in their parliamentary procedures voted to have the tribunal. I would hope that they would call the parliament together so that this can -- the decision -- the cabinet has voted so that the decision can be taken to the parliament. We know that the majority of the parliamentarians support the tribunal. I would just hope that the leadership of the parliament and the presidency would allow the Lebanese parliament to take the vote.
QUESTION:? But that's before Hezbollah members withdrew actually, so I mean, we're talking about now this kind of parliament. I'm not quite sure if they can approve the tribunal and willing to go to the UN and use Chapter 7 to --
SECRETARY RICE:? We will keep the international options open for how we get there. But the important point is we have to get there and we need to get there soon.
QUESTION:? Just go to Iraq. The Iraqi Government confirmed that Moqtada al-Sadr is in Iran. Can you confirm that he's in Iran?
SECRETARY RICE:? I can only say what I suppose the Iraqi Government has heard. I've also heard this, too. And I assume that if the Iraqi Government is saying that, then perhaps it's true. I don't --
QUESTION:? You must have your sources.
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, I'll just -- the Iraqi Government said that that's the case and I expect that that's the case.
QUESTION:? If he goes back to Iran, presuming he is in Iran, would you instruct American forces to arrest him?
SECRETARY RICE:? We have been dealing with the issues concerning Muqtada al-Sadr. These are issues for the Iraqi Government. And the United States is of course helping the Iraqi Government within its democratic structures to deal with all of its problems. When it comes to the issue of militias and death squads, death squads that are going into neighborhoods and for sectarian reasons, ethnically cleansing a neighborhood and then sending the women into exile, there we will support the Iraqi Government in dealing with anybody, anybody's militia who is engaging in that kind of terror against the Iraqi people. And the Iraqi Prime Minister has said that he is going to be absolutely tough and unremittingly tough on anybody who is operating outside the law and we will help them in that regard.
QUESTION:? And finally, the GCC countries has endorsed an idea of having a nuclear technology to allow them to have it for peaceful purposes. Would you support that?
SECRETARY RICE:? Well, we generally believe that countries ought to have access to civil nuclear technology for peaceful purposes because with the energy problems that we have -- now some of the countries in the Gulf don't have an energy problem, but nonetheless the clean technology, that is, nuclear technology, is something that we've supported. The world needs to be certain that there is no proliferation risk, nuclear proliferation risk, the ability to turn a peaceful program into a nuclear weapons program. And so that's why the President a couple years ago suggested that countries be encouraged to have civil nuclear programs, but not to have the fuel cycle of enriching and reprocessing which can lead to a nuclear weapon, but have perhaps guaranteed fuel supply from the outside.
And by the way, that is a proposal that was made to the Iranians by the Russians and it's one that we fully support. And so it's not that we would wish to deny anyone civil nuclear technology, we would not. We would, however, in the interest of international security want to make certain that those programs could not be turned into nuclear weapons programs.
QUESTION:? Secretary, thank you very much.
SECRETARY RICE:? It's a pleasure to be with you.
QUESTION:? Thank you.
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