Roundtable With The Traveling Press

But, you know, I was there for a not very long time and we were having good discussions and it seemed like a good idea for Chris to stay behind and continue those discussions.

QUESTION: Can you flesh out the ideas at all?

SECRETARY RICE: No. (Laughter.)

QUESTION: Oh, come on.

QUESTION: If he is successful, what do you hope to have?

SECRETARY RICE: You're really try to -- look --

QUESTION: No, no, no, not specifically. But is it something that can revolutionize the whole process, or it is something that --

SECRETARY RICE: This is not a process that is going to be revolutionized. In fairness to Mr. Muhammad here, let me say you know the concerns we have. We have concerns about getting to a complete declaration by the North Koreans that will actually inspire confidence that the next phase is going to be productive. Because this is -- the first phase was not, surprisingly, the easiest. You shut the thing down.

The second phase is not easy. You start to disable, so it gets hard. But the third phase is going to be really hard, which is where you have to really talk about dismantling and you have to account for the material and you have to figure out what to do with the material. That's all going to be hard and it's going to require some hard choices on the part of the parties as well, about political -- political normalization, not in the capital N sense of normalization, but political engagement. And, you know, we have a lot of issues.

And so you -- while I'm not at all disturbed by delays in the second phase, because it's hard, I do think that the second phase is going to have to end in a way that inspires confidence that the third phase is going to make progress, given the difficulties. And so that's the sort of thing that we are really talking through with the Chinese, how do you do that.

Secondly, it's not surprising to anybody here that we do have concerns about proliferation and there is a North Korean pledge in the -- to the six parties that they will not proliferate know-how and materiel. And I think we have to have a way to -- to look at that going forward, and so we are having those discussions, too.

QUESTION: Have you shared intelligence with the Chinese on proliferation and will you do the same with the Japanese?

SECRETARY RICE: We have had -- I won't talk about intelligence matters. But we have had pretty extensive discussions with all of the members of the six parties about some of the concerns that we have, including with the North Koreans, by the way.

QUESTION: To follow up on this, yesterday you had used the word "synchronization" and talked about synchronizing things. And I wonder if you can elaborate on that or explain why synchronization is so important, unless you feel like you've gotten to a place where the North Koreans are willing to do what they have committed to do, which is to actually produce the declaration?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, they are committed to and have said they will produce the declaration. We are just concerned that it be a declaration that is going to inspire confidence going forward. And we -- when I talk about synchronization, I just mean that everybody understands that we are still in a process of trying to build trust between the parties. So there is always a you-go-first kind of instinct by everybody, and we have to figure out a way that everybody can be confident that the obligations are being carried out. That's what synchronization really means.

QUESTION: So are you thinking that the other five would do some of their things, would go a little faster than they had previously --

SECRETARY RICE: No, no. No, I think the -- as I said to you yesterday, nobody has held up the oil shipments for purposes of trying to get more out of the North Koreans. Those two were moving more or less in parallel. There are some -- there were earlier on some technical difficulties on both sides of that. And the North has said that they have not stopped it. And so we just want to keep everybody pushing ahead as quickly as possible.

QUESTION: My question was, are you trying to go faster? I just wanted to make sure that you understood it.

SECRETARY RICE: Oh, are we all trying to go a faster --

QUESTION: The other five might go a little faster? In other words --

SECRETARY RICE: Faster than the North Koreans?

QUESTION: Well, you said there's always this issue of who goes first. And if you are trying to build trust --

SECRETARY RICE: Yeah, I think that it's a question of everybody moving pretty much at the same time, that's -- that would be best.

QUESTION: Secretary Rice, can you explain to us again what exactly do you want to be included in North Korea's declaration? Like the number of bombs, where there are storages or how many kilograms they have or the, you know, the uranium or the Syrian connection?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I don't want to get -- try to get too detailed on every list that has to be made. But we know that there was an active plutonium program that produced fissile material and that something happened to it. We need to know what happened.

Secondly, we have had concerns about a highly enriched uranium path that the North may well have taken and we need to understand what happened on that path.

Third, there are questions about proliferation activities that led the North to make a pledge and then to reiterate that pledge in October that they would not transfer know-how or materiel. And so I think we need to understand what happened there. And we need to understand really more importantly how not to have proliferation concerns in the future or how to address proliferation concerns in the future.

So those are elements we will need to be able to use the declaration to get some satisfaction on those matters. I can't tell you what has to be line for line in the declaration. But those are the kinds of issues that I think this phase has to address.

QUESTION: Would that be something like the element A, B, C, D, all in one form? Or if something is lacking, you --

SECRETARY RICE: I really -- I really have less concern about what form it takes or how many different pieces of paper there may have to be or how many times it may have to go back and forth. I am just concerned that by the time we get to the end of this phase, we have a -- some clarity so that we know what we're looking at for the third phase. And that was always the intention of this second phase, was to set up the third phase.

It would be a different matter if everybody just planned to stop at disabling. But since you plan to go on to true denuclearization, you have to establish some ground rules or some ground bases in this phase.

QUESTION: It's already passed the deadline. But do you have in mind any kind of new deadline setting?

SECRETARY RICE: No. As I said, the deadlines are important, but getting it right is more important.

QUESTION: Do you have an indication that North Korea has been proliferating since the October agreement?

SECRETARY RICE: We have concerns about proliferation behavior, and I think we will try to get to the bottom of it.

QUESTION: Can I go to a different subject?

SECRETARY RICE: Yes.

QUESTION: What is going to be the message you are going to convey to the leaders, the Japanese leaders talk this afternoon, about the alleged 14-year-old girl rape case in Okinawa by a U.S. Marine? And are you concerned about any -- that might undermine the U.S.-Japan alliance in the future?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, the first point that I would make is that we just regret deeply that this happened and it is -- our concern, and the ambassador has expressed it, is for the girl and her family. I would hope that they know that the American people are concerned about them and the American government is concerned about them.

The -- General Wright, who has just left, set up a task force to talk to people, to make sure that we know what happened there. Also to try to see what we can do going forward to prevent such incidents. And General Rice will -- the incoming, the new commander, will carry that out.

We certainly hope that there will not be lasting effects. It is a longstanding and strong alliance. But our concern right now is to see that justice is done, to get to the bottom of it. And our concern is for the girl and her family. But we really, really deeply regret it.

QUESTION: About the relationship and alliance, as you know, the Japanese government is somehow expecting to get F-22 as a next-generation fighter inside of Japan defense. But your Secretary of Defense, Bob Gates, actually (inaudible) that it's not going to happen in the near future. And I'm curious to know what is your position in this regard?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, that's a Pentagon -- the Pentagon would make that recommendation.

Look, we have had a very fruitful several years of strengthening the U.S.-Japan alliance. We, I think, have done a great deal to modernize this alliance. We have pending recommendations from a defense policy review initiative that we undertook in the so-called two plus two, the Japanese foreign and defense ministers and foreign and defense ministers -- secretaries for the United States. There are some recommendations that I am going to talk with my Japanese counterparts about, that we need to move forward on those recommendations.

I don't think this alliance has ever been stronger. And precisely how modernization goes forward or what hardware is purchased by whom, I’ll leave to the Pentagon, to discussions between the Pentagon and the Defense Ministry. But I think the fact of the matter is that we have done a lot to modernize this alliance. It is a bedrock, pillar for this entire region. There is no stronger alliance for the United States and the world. And so I think it's going to be just fine, whatever hardware ends up securing it.

QUESTION: I'll just follow up, you said modernizing this alliance. And I remember after North Korean nuclear test on the Korean Peninsula, you came here to Tokyo to reiterate the U.S. strong commitment to the nuclear deterrence, right? And I am curious to know again, if you say modernize the alliance, is that including somehow nuclear component to the security of Japan?

SECRETARY RICE: The United States maintains its defense commitment to Japan. And, as I said when I was here at the time of the North Korean nuclear test, the American commitment is to defend Japan using the full range of its capabilities. And I think all of the regional players understand that and know that.

So when I say modernize the alliance, I simply mean that we've discussed some relocation of forces, we have talked about how to make the alliance one that is responsive to how quickly one needs now to be able to be mobile and to move more quickly. We are not facing the same Soviet threat that we once faced, so that's what I mean by modernization.

But there couldn't be a stronger commitment to the defense of Japan, and that stands, as it did when I was here after the North Korean nuclear test.

QUESTION: In relation to the (inaudible), Japanese are politically very sensitive to the issue of delisting North Korea from the terrorism supporting countries.

SECRETARY RICE: Yes.

QUESTION: Have you reached an understanding with Japanese government or any acceptance from Japanese government on the timing and procedure of delisting?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, the United States has a set of procedures concerning delisting. And this relates to the North Koreans fulfilling their obligations in phase two. We have been very clear that the abduction issue is of deep concern to the United States. We have facilitated discussions between the DPRK and Japan on that issue. We have been very clear with the DPRK every time we engage them that this is a humanitarian issue of the worst sort, to have people disappear and unaccounted for. And that they need to investigate it and they need to respond to Japanese concerns.

Even if we complete phase two, or when we complete phase two and there's delisting, that's of course not the end of the political decision and discussions that have to take place. And we believe at the same time that there would be discussions launched about the normalization of relations with the United States, as is put forward in the September 2005 agreement, there need to be discussions about the normalization of relations with the DPRK and Japan. And we fully understand that at very high on that list, maybe at the top of the list with Japan, is the abduction issue. And so we have carried that in our discussions with the North Koreans.

QUESTION: Will you be discussing -- when you meet with Prime Minister Olmert, will you be discussing North Korean proliferation issues --

SECRETARY RICE: We will discuss a wide range of issues. I suspect that there's plenty to talk about, about the peace process and Gaza and a number of issues. But I will discuss whatever is on the Prime Minister's mind.

QUESTION: (Inaudible) much closer to those of U.S. and Japan in the previous administration. So now the Japanese government is interested in coordinating three countries' position, Japan, U.S. and South Korea, and they are thinking about resumption of so-called (inaudible) process. What is your response to the idea of (inaudible) coordination of the three countries?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, in fact, we -- I have had trilateral -- in the past, trilateral discussions with the South Korean and Japanese foreign ministers and myself. Because I think it's natural, we have a strong defense alliance with South Korea, we have a strong defense alliance with Japan. It makes sense to have coordination.

But we have had very close coordination with all of the members of the five parties in the Six Party Talks, but especially with Japan and with South Korea, given the nature of our relationships. So I would not expect that to change.

I did have an opportunity to discuss the North Korean issue with the South Korean president. He has made very clear how he sees the North Korean issue. He made clear in his inaugural how he sees it, and in subsequent interviews.

The good thing is that we have a very clear roadmap of how this is to proceed. And it's a roadmap that I think has served us well and should continue to be the way that we move in the future. It is, what's meant by action for action is that everybody has got obligations on one side, everybody has got obligations on the other side; we need to meet them.

Now, when we get to phase three, we will need to determine what action for action will mean in phase three. We know the things that need to be achieved in what we hope will be the final phase, the true denuclearization. But we will have to sit down again and lay out a roadmap. That will be the time, I think, for very close coordination among all of the parties, but also with our closest allies.

QUESTION: Do you plan to create some form of trilateral cooperation between Japan, U.S., South Korea?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, we have had those discussions in the past and I think we would continue them in the future. But the -- you know, there is a natural relationship there that allows -- because of our defense alliances, because of a role that we play, because the three of us are great democracies in this region, it has been natural to have that kind of coordination. So I would expect that to continue.

QUESTION: Do you still have an idea to set up a multilateral security forum or something in this east Asian --

SECRETARY RICE: Yes.

QUESTION: Maybe based upon (inaudible) or Six Party Talks?

SECRETARY RICE: I think that the six party framework envisions as northeast Asia peace and security mechanism which would evolve out of a changing relationship on the Korean Peninsula through denuclearization or as denuclearization proceeds.

I think the most solid pillars for the United States in the Asia-Pacific region are our strong defense alliances with Japan and with South Korea. Those are the fundamental pillars.

We have had, over the last several years, an interesting experience. Which is that the North Korean nuclear issue, which could have been a source of conflict in this region, particularly given China's interest, given Russia's interest and given the interests of the United States, Japan and South Korea, could have been a source of conflict. We could have been going in many different directions about what the North ought to do, what would be the benefits to the North if it engaged, what would be the requirements of the North -- it could have really been very chaotic.

Instead, the North Korean nuclear issue has been a source of cooperation between these powers. And so what we think might make sense is to find a way to extend, institutionalize if you wish, the habits of cooperation that have come out of dealing with the North Korean nuclear issue.

Nobody is suggesting that this is going to be an alliance. Nobody is suggesting that this is going to be a security organization that has requirements for its -- but imagine that we could extend those habits of cooperation to deal with counterterrorism matters or to deal with nonproliferation issues or to deal with humanitarian relief issues of the kind that we tried to help China with during the recent snow storms in the south of China.

So this is a region that has not -- doesn't have really that many fora -- it has none -- for security discussion and cooperation. I think we would like to take the benefit of having taken the North Korean issue and made it into something that has helped us to cooperate and see if we couldn't extend and institutionalize it.

QUESTION: What you have in your mind is something like OSCE rather than NATO?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, it's certainly not like NATO. It's certainly not like NATO.

QUESTION: I just want to --

SECRETARY RICE: No, certainly not like NATO. And OSCE comes out of a particular history that probably isn't exactly the relevant one either. But as I said, I just think of it as trying to institutionalize these patterns of cooperation and these habits of cooperation.

I'll tell you, when the nuclear test happened and then the nuclear -- first the missile test and then the nuclear test, the fact that we already had established cooperation among the five parties really did help us to manage that going forward. So I think there's a lesson in that. You said the acronym is terrible?

QUESTION: No, no, the acronym would be great. From SEATO (phonetic) to NEATO. (Laughter.)

SECRETARY RICE: NEAPSM.

QUESTION: NEATO.

SECRETARY RICE: No, no, no, there's no T in there.

QUESTION: On proliferation, is your main concern about links with Syria?

SECRETARY RICE: We have a number of proliferation concerns.

QUESTION: Meaning more countries? Iran?

SECRETARY RICE: Whenever you have a nuclear program that is as advanced as the North Korean nuclear program, in a country that is as opaque and has had very little contact with the outside world, you need to worry about proliferation as a near-term and a long-term concern. So I won't get into specific issues because they involve a lot of details that I just can't go into. But, you know, yeah, there are a lot of concerns.

QUESTION: Because Chris Hill will mention Syria and I was just wondering if you can mention more countries.

SECRETARY RICE: Chris Hill will talk about all proliferation concerns.

QUESTION: Are you at a point, though, where the talks that he's having, your talks with President Hu yesterday, where you see this kind of promise in getting -- in getting --

SECRETARY RICE: Matt, I wouldn't think of this -- let me just -- that the United States is somehow seeking promises from others.

QUESTION: No, I mean promising.

SECRETARY RICE: Oh, promising.

QUESTION: The prospect -- somehow, do you get the idea that prospects are --

SECRETARY RICE: I thought that the talks were useful and they were constructive. And I would have liked to have continued them myself. But, of course, I am on a limited schedule and I needed to come here to Japan and I need to get home so I can go to the Middle East.

But Chris will continue those discussions and I think that's a useful thing to do at this point. There's a lot to talk about.

QUESTION: In terms of peace mechanism of Korean Peninsula, when do you think is the appropriate time to start this?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, you rightly note, we talk about denuclearization, we talk about the northeast Asia peace and security mechanism. But in the middle has been the view that, as denuclearization proceeds, and becomes real, that it will be time to look at the Korean peninsula itself and at the nature of the relationship on the Korean peninsula, because it's obviously still in a state of war.

And as denuclearization becomes real, I think we'll want to examine that. But there's a lot of work that would have to be done on that. And first and foremost, of course, we have a strong relationship with South Korea that I think has been maintained to the benefit of South Korea, to the benefit of the peninsula and to the benefit of the region. And so that relationship would remain at the center of any discussions that we might have about how the Korean Peninsula might evolve.

But I think we need to have some confidence that denuclearization is real in order to get to that point.

QUESTION: So you mean definitely not until you've completed (inaudible)?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I can't say -- I think discussions can begin at a time when we have some prospect that denuclearization is going to be real.

MR. McCORMACK: One or two questions we have left --

QUESTION: Madame Secretary (inaudible)?

SECRETARY RICE: I can't even begin to imagine the President's plans for that period of time.

But let me just repeat, and I know if President Bush were sitting here, he would want me to say this, that for all Americans, from the President and the ambassador to myself, this is just a really deeply regrettable case, incident. It should not happen and this sort of thing is very hard to see something like this happen and it's especially hard because it involves a young girl. And we just want to keep the focus on our concerns for her.

But I know that President Bush would want me to deliver that message as well.

QUESTION: (Inaudible.)

SECRETARY RICE: Yes.

QUESTION: (Inaudible.)

SECRETARY RICE: Artistically, they're terrific. Look, I did go home and turn on TV -- I won't say what channel. I heard the National Anthem played in Pyongyang. That's special. It is. It's a good thing that the Philharmonic went. It will be a good thing when North Korea is open enough to have cultural exchanges.

But I don't think anyone should overestimate the impact on the politics of North Korea. Yet, I'm a believer in cultural exchange and, I hope there will be more.

QUESTION: Some day you can play piano in Pyongyang? (Laughter.)

SECRETARY RICE: I love to play the piano. But I think I'll stick to Washington, D.C., right now.

Thank you.

2008/T6-7