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James P. Rubin, Spokesman Bureau of Public Affairs Press Briefing on the Middle East Peace Process New York, New York, September 27, 1998

MR. RUBIN: I'm under-dressed, and Schweid has his tie on. This ain't right.

They started the meeting at 6:30 p.m., it is my understanding. Secretary Albright, as you know, had a meeting with Chairman Arafat about an hour long, earlier this afternoon. We would expect this meeting to last roughly that time frame. They are working--she is working very, very hard this weekend, in advance of the President's meetings, to try to, as I said before, make as much progress as we can, where we can, in order to put the process back on track.

Clearly, progress has been made in the run-up to these meetings and continues to be made during the meetings. But where it will lead us is not clear at this point.

On the record for your questions.

Q Does she expect Arafat to deliver the same kind of speech that he was supposed to?

MR. RUBIN: We've made very clear to both sides that it's important that they not take actions or make statements that prejudge issues to be determined in the final status talks. That is a position of principle we've had with both sides. We've pushed quite hard with both sides during recent months; and yes, we made that very clear to Chairman Arafat.

Q That wasn't the question; the question was --

MR. RUBIN: Let me just finish my thing--and Secretary Albright made that clear with him in her meetings with him in the last couple of days.

Q The question was, do you still expect Arafat to make this statement that he said he would make?

MR. RUBIN: Well, I don't know what he said he would make; he's said different things. So I don't know how to answer that question.

Q Well, you heard today--he basically said he would declare statehood--not through the peace process--

MR. RUBIN: I've heard accounts of things being crossed out from speeches as well.

Q But he said it downstairs this morning.

MR. RUBIN: Said what?

Q He said he's hoping that the peace process will lead to statehood; but if not, May 4 can't just come and go.

MR. RUBIN: Well, that's a statement of fact.

Q He makes all sorts of public statements that contradict each other, but what did he tell the Secretary of State?

MR. RUBIN: Regarding what questions?

Q Will he make a unilateral statehood declaration tomorrow?

MR. RUBIN: Declare statehood tomorrow?

Q You know what I mean.

MR. RUBIN: No, it's a really big difference.

Q Well, then I'll ask the question precisely, okay? Will he tell the UN tomorrow, where he's quite comfortable because he has an element of support there, that if he cannot get a state through negotiations, he intends to declare it unilaterally?

MR. RUBIN: I don't know what Chairman Arafat is going to say tomorrow. It's up to Chairman Arafat to report publicly on what his intentions are about public statements he hasn't yet made.

What I do know is that we have continued to make known our views--our strong views--to both sides about the dangers and the fact that it wouldn't be helpful to the process to make unilateral statements, such as a unilateral statement declaring statehood.

Q So he didn't tell her today or yesterday how he would phrase that issue tomorrow.

MR. RUBIN: I didn't say that either. I'm just saying that it's not up to me to report--

Q You won't say what he told her is what--

MR. RUBIN: They had a one-on-one meeting, and it's not up to me to report what's said in one-on-one meetings.

Q Was it one-on-one by the way? You didn't specify one-on-one.

MR. RUBIN: Yes, it was one-on-one; it was an hour this afternoon.

Q The Israelis are saying that territory--one Israeli will say that they have it down, another will say we pretty much have it resolved and security is the problem. What headway, if any, did she make on security with Arafat?

MR. RUBIN: Well, there's two parts to your question. On the first part--I know you only asked one, but there are two parts.

Q No, there aren't.

MR. RUBIN: There was one on predicate.

Q I'm not asking about territory; I'm asking about security.

MR. RUBIN: (Inaudible.)

Q No, I don't. Someone else can ask you about territory. I will not be diverted from the notion that they pretty much have a territorial agreement and the hang-up now is security. So I'm asking you if she made--or even tried--made any headway with Arafat in these two meetings on security to take care of the other big issue.

MR. RUBIN: There are two main issues that have been the focus of these discussions, and she's worked very hard on them. One is the scope of the further redeployment, and the other is the con-commitant security cooperation necessary. She's worked very hard on both. We've made progress on both in recent weeks and months, and we continue to make progress.

Q Is it complex when they have television programs with Palestinian children encouraged to be suicide--

MR. RUBIN: Why do you always ask these ridiculous questions?

Q It is not that complex. The Israelis have been asking you for 18 months to have them confiscate weapons, to break up sales, 25 Hamas people they said Thursday in their newspaper are under the protection of the Palestinians. So did she ask them to reverse any of these actions or inactions?

MR. RUBIN: I have no comment.

Q You're just telling me she's making progress on security. You've been saying that for a year and a half.

MR. RUBIN: I don't know how to answer those kind of--

Q A simple question--did she make any specific requests about any specific security issues?

MR. RUBIN: She's been doing that all along, and continues.

Q And she made progress on that?

MR. RUBIN: We're working the problem; we're making progress where we can find it. We're working those problems. I can assure you that all the information that you have, she has as well and cares about it as much as anybody does.

Q And what are the prospects now for a deal?

MR. RUBIN: On?

Q On some sort of announcement in the next couple of days that will lock in progress on x, y and z.

MR. RUBIN: I don't know what form, as I indicated to others of you during the course of the last few days--first of all, let me be very clear. It's very hard to report in real time about what people are talking about in another room without harming the chances of getting a deal. That is what I care most about and what the Secretary cares most about. Even if it means that others will talk, we won't, because that's our view.

With respect to how progress, if it's substantial progress, is reported, I don't think any decisions have been made. I think if we make substantial progress and achieve progress--conclusion on key points, I wouldn't expect it to remain hidden for long. But we're going to keep working until we get progress.

If we get it, then we'll worry about how to report it.

Q If there's no progress here, are the meetings at the White House with the President still on?

MR. RUBIN: Yes, the meetings are on. I think I specifically tried to communicate that there has been progress in the course of today and last night. There has been progress on the key points. How far it goes is a different question.

Q You've talked about making progress already, and then you just said, "if we make substantial progress--

MR. RUBIN: On key points.

Q On key points. So would you say to have any kind of an agreement or announcement, you still need to make substantial progress? Is that a correct reading?

MR. RUBIN: On key points. In other words, there's a hierarchy of issues. The scope of the further redeployment is a key point. The agreement in principle on x, y and z and a and b and c and d and e and f and g on security--which is, in terms of just recording information, is much, much more complicated and a bigger and bigger package of words. If you count them when it's over, you'll see what I'm talking about--if it's over.

So there the ability to close is contingent upon a lot more detailed work.

MR. RUBIN: It wouldn't be communicated. Announced is a complicated word.

Q You're fond of spectrums. A spectrum ranging from a peace treaty on one end to a memorandum of understanding on the other end, what is it that is likely--that could come out if all the things get--

MR. RUBIN: None of those.

Q No, I know, but I mean, is it an agreement; is it an announcement; is it a piece of paper? What is likely to come out if you're successful in the next few days?

MR. RUBIN: Without describing its form, which I can't do because we haven't worried about that form--MOU, peace agreement--

Q Haven't worried about that?

MR. RUBIN: No, that's not what we've been focusing on; we've been focusing on the it, not the form of it.

Q What are the (inaudible) doing in the meantime--you know, Ross and Indyk? Are they meeting, are they drafting? I don't want to call them senior officials, but--

--they're in a mechanical job, presumably, doing some writing or drafting?

MR. RUBIN: No.

Q No?

MR. RUBIN: Basically what this episode consists of is one-on-one meetings between the Secretary and Arafat and the Secretary and the Prime Minister, Chairman Arafat and the Prime Minister, in which she runs through a bunch of points with them--what she is seeking to get agreement on or assurances on or otherwise to improve the chances for peace.

The meetings break; she reports where the problems are. They might talk to some of their counterparts.

Q Have they?

MR. RUBIN: Sure, but there's not a lot of drafting going on.

Q But they carry--between these top meetings, they have their meetings?

MR. RUBIN: They have meetings in between; not too many.

Q There's never been a three-way?

MR. RUBIN: There hasn't been a three-way to my knowledge.

Q And the meetings today with Netanyahu and Arafat were both one-on-one as well?

MR. RUBIN: Correct.

Q Is she likely to meet again tonight with Arafat, or could this go on--

Q Both of them together?

MR. RUBIN: Well, what I wanted to say on that as I started out is that all I can tell you, as you've seen the pattern, is once I know something is going to happen I tell it to you, I hope, conclusively. And until I know something is going to happen, I will say I can't rule it out.

So after the meeting now with Netanyahu, I can't rule out additional meetings tonight. That's what I've been saying for days, and that's the only way I know how to do this.

Q How soon will you be able to tell us after the meeting is over what the prospect is for whatever--

MR. RUBIN: I would stick around; I just don't know. I'm sorry, but there's no other way to tell you.

As soon as I'm in a position to confirm or tell you an expectation of additional meetings, I will.

Q Have you made any progress on the other unilateral--(inaudible)--some progress on the Arafat speech on the--(inaudible). Have you made any progress on the settlements, for example? Has something been discussed between the Secretary and Netanyahu?

MR. RUBIN: On?

Q The settlements and the fact that--

MR. RUBIN: Yes. She has been--I sometimes say two, I sometimes say five and I sometimes say four points. In order to get to a full agreement and put the interim issues behind us and go to permanent status talks, we need to resolve the further redeployment; we need to resolve the security cooperation--and that is not intended to be in any particular order; we need to resolve the interim committee issues; and we need to resolve the unilateral assurances that we think are necessary for one to have confidence that during this period, the process won't be undermined by unilateral actions or statements by either side.

All four pieces of those are discussed and have been discussed in the course of meetings over the last two days. What I'm saying is, I would say the focus of the work has been on the security cooperation and the scope of the further redeployment.

Q And that's over both days?

MR. RUBIN: Right.

Q You want to make them equally unresolved? You want to give us the impression that those two issues are equally unresolved?

MR. RUBIN: Equally unresolved?

Q No, I mean, I know in end games, nothing is agreed until everything and all that. Putting that aside--

Because you keep pairing--what you've done tonight is, until tonight you've been asked about the speech and you've always said and she has said they don't want Arafat to make a unilateral. Today you've chosen to make it a parallel thing, as if both have to be--

MR. RUBIN: No, I think that--

Q So you made it parallel. I know that our policy is parallel, but the issue today is whether he makes a speech tomorrow; not whether Netanyahu breaks out a new settlement tomorrow.

MR. RUBIN: When is his speech? It's not tomorrow.

Q Yes, it is.

MR. RUBIN: Tomorrow afternoon?

Q That's why we're asking about the speech, because it's ripe; it's about to be delivered.

MR. RUBIN: I have tried, through the course of my time as spokesman, to follow the guidance of the people who tell me how to speak. What I've tried to do--and maybe I've failed--

Q No, you're doing fine. You follow the guidance very well.

MR. RUBIN: Maybe I've failed. When there's a unilateral action or statement brewing on one side, I make the general point that it applies to both sides, and I apply it to the specific that may just be happening. That's what I've been trying to do.

So tonight, if you ask me about the speech of the Chairman, what I'm trying to say back is we have a position of principle specifically this would apply to the unilateral declaration of statehood; and we have made that point very clear to Chairman Arafat.

All right, now, obviously we know there's territory and there's security. But the Israelis are saying on the record, on background, every form--

MR. RUBIN: Flesh out--what did they say?

Q All you have to do is get a transcript. Netanyahu on CNN--that they're near an agreement--that they've agreed to give up to the 13% with a 3%--we don't want to ask you percentages, okay?

You're putting it back into the same uncertain category as security arrangements. And I've got to take guidance from you. If that's the U.S. position--that the Israelis are being too positive about this--I want to report it. But if you're just doing parallelisms because that's the overall guidance, I'll just deal with it differently.

Q Is Arafat dragging his feet?

MR. RUBIN: Let me try to answer both questions in the following way. If the question is, do we dispute that we are very close to an agreement on the 13%, I do not dispute that.

Q Fine. How close are you to an agreement on security that would satisfy the Israelis?

MR. RUBIN: In the same level of detail? It has a lot more work to be done; because I'm trying to communicate to you that although the principles may be equally important, the recording of the details is much more complex.

Q Of course; that's what I'm talking about.

Q What about the make-up of the 13%?

MR. RUBIN: Did that answer your question?

Q Absolutely.

Q That's both on the record--that "I do not dispute that," concerning the 13% and on security?

MR. RUBIN: Let me add to that. I do not dispute that. One of the foci of--can I say that, foci?--Secretary Albright has focused on trying to make progress on the scope of the further redeployment. I do not dispute that we are very close.

Q And the business about security--there's a lot more work to be done in that area, right?

MR. RUBIN: Because of the nature of it, it also requires more work. It's a much more complex--although equally important if not--it's a sine qua non, so it's more important; but it's more complex.

Q Right, but then as a follow-up, would you say that the Israelis have gone--

MR. RUBIN: This is going to be the most complicated transcript in the history of mankind.

Q At this point in time, have the Israelis been more cooperative than the Palestinians?

MR. RUBIN: We're not judging who is more cooperative.

Q Let me ask you a question. Have the Palestinians given you what you regard as satisfactory answers on the questions if why they are not doing the things in the security area that the Oslo accords say they are supposed to be doing?

MR. RUBIN: We don't think either side is giving us satisfactory answers to why either side is not implementing the Oslo accords. I'm just trying--in other words, neither side is implementing Oslo. We're not into a blame game; we're trying to resolve the problem.

Q Speaking of resolving problems, where do you stand in resolving the Palestinian charter part of the--

MR. RUBIN: The--

Q The revocation of the--

MR. RUBIN: Right, that's something that comes up from time to time.

Q Only from time to time?

MR. RUBIN: Well, as I've indicated to you, one can't say every problem in every meeting; so one tries to focus on some problems. I've told you what we've been focusing on. That doesn't mean that all the issues don't come up.

Q The two main issues that we've spent a lot of time--

MR. RUBIN: The security cooperation and all that goes with it--with all its detailed procedures and infrastructure to fight terrorism--and the scope, nature, quality of the further redeployment.

Q Well, but if they're not resolved in all their details, can you still do what you talked about the other day--and that is at least lock in progress where you have it?

MR. RUBIN: Yes.

Q You could--on those--

Q But without communicating it.

MR. RUBIN: Maybe not.

Q Oh, I thought when the details are resolved, you communicate it.

MR. RUBIN: We'll have to see. I think we--probably in one form or another--announced versus--

Q (Inaudible)--statement, sure--

MR. RUBIN: There's a difference between announcing and maybe even communicating publicly the exact details of part of an agreement and making clear that we've shifted the focus--that that's largely resolved and we don't really have a lot of work to do on that, and now the focus is this.

So one can say that issue is behind us without announcing it.

Q I get it, of course.

Q Without announcing it at all, or just not announcing it--

Q No, even at a photo op with the President or whatever.

Q In a guidance.

Q You say you may have something more to say later tonight.

MR. RUBIN: Correct.

Q Will this just be in the nature of the fact that somebody had an additional meeting or it happened earlier or will it be substance possibly?

MR. RUBIN: I don't know.

Q It's possible it may be, "well, they met again?"

Q In theory you could come out--

Q (Inaudible)--call us and say there was another meeting. We could work in our room. Let's put it another way--can we get a heads-up if you'll be saying something?

MR. RUBIN: I could give Lee a couple sentences and you guys go back to your room.

Q No, I'm trying to say--if Lee knows--there are only about six or eight of us. If Lee knows were we are--

MR. RUBIN: If it's a newspaper or a wire, can I go to sleep knowing you're not going to make an agreement tonight on a key point; is that your question?

Q More or less, that my question.

Q There's the whole truth.

Q Kind of a different question.

MR. RUBIN: Given the nature of this business, it's a low probability.

Q What, that there will be substance?

MR. RUBIN: An agreement on a key point.

Q Oh.

Q You're not going to undercut the President's chance to announce it.

Q Right.

Q Well, back off from that--how much would you be likely to say, if there is something to say, given the fact that the President is going to have a meeting tomorrow?

MR. RUBIN: If I didn't think I might have something to say that some of you would need to know, I wouldn't have told you to stick around. I don't always tell you to stick around.

Q Well, stick around means within phone reach.

MR. RUBIN: Yes. You don't need to be standing right here.

Can someone just tell me, did I say anything? Because it was the most confused briefing I've ever given in my life.

Q Yes, you did.

Q Well, just do the same story we did the last time.

MR. RUBIN: Right.

Then I succeeded.

Seriously, let me summarize for you what I was trying to say.

What I was trying to say was--the not dispute sentence was very--I wanted to be able to say that.

Q (Inaudible)--Israeli optimism.

MR. RUBIN: Right, on that area. Number two, to not say that because that it true that it's a simple fact of the other guys then behaving--

Q (Inaudible)--protective.

MR. RUBIN: Right, that's what I was trying to say.

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