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Ambassador Richard Holbrooke and Ambassador Christopher Hill Round-table discussion with representatives of the Serbian independent media, Belgrade, Serbia, December 15, 1998

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: I am delighted to meet with you all again informally. We are a little bit late because we had to change our schedule today, and we went to Pristina because of the situation down there. So let me just say that I was last here on October 13, and the situation has changed in many ways that you know better than I since then. Some are for the better, some not for the better. And the situation changes every day. Yesterday was a very bad day in Kosovo, with three incidents. One a tragedy -- the loss of three French diplomats on the road. It made Ambassador Hill, Ambassador Miles, and me think about Mount Igman, because once again three diplomats were killed in a road accident which was caused by the situation, not an ordinary road accident, and we share the French loss, and we have expressed our condolences officially to the French Government.

The second incident was a very serious border clash, with over 30 Albanians killed in a series of engagements along the border, most of them in the fourth or fifth of a series of engagements in the early morning hours of the night before last. Kosovo Verification Mission personnel immediately went to the scene -- a response that is completely different from the UN in Bosnia. They were there very quickly. We have photographs -- photographs of the bodies, of the prisoners. There are seven prisoners; we are going to gain access to the prisoners now. We don't know all the details -- for example, we don't know where they were coming from and where they were going -- but the 25 of the 31 who were killed appeared to be killed about 1,800 meters or less from the Albanian border. And it looks like they may have been trying to go back out, but I can't be sure. All our information is third hand. Ambassador Miles and I and Ambassador Walker talked to the Verification Mission personnel who had been out there.

The third event that took place yesterday took place in the Panda Bar in Pec, a Serb bar, about 9 p.m. last night. Somebody went in and sprayed the place with fire. Our reports are that six people were killed -- teenage boys -- and 15 were wounded. Whatever the provocation and whoever committed this event, it is outrageous and unacceptable. This is not correct under any circumstances. The KVM personnel in Pec are gathering information, and as soon as we know more about this we'll share it with you, of course. That's what the Kosovo Verification Mission is there for. We can't prevent these incidents. Even if they were armed, we couldn't prevent them. But we sure as hell can do as much as we can to learn about them and to report to everybody and to try to take corrective actions.

There is also a demonstration that was going on earlier today, and may still be going on, in Pec by some Serb citizens against the KDOM, against the International Verification Mission. This doesn't make any sense at all. If it's an attempt to threaten the lives of the international verification group, it's completely misguided, it's not going to intimidate us, and the KVM is in fact there to bring stability to the region. It's also in contravention of the agreement between the OSCE and the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, which guarantees the security and safety of all the international verification people. And that's a very serious and solemn commitment.

Those were the events of the last 24 hours. That isn't why we are here. I was asked to come here by the Secretary of State and the President because 2 months after the trip there has been some progress and there have been some setbacks, there has been some compliance and there has been some non-compliance, and we felt that it was time for a review. And so Secretary Albright and Chris Hill and Ambassador Miles thought it would be useful for me to come out. I was in the area anyway. I want to stress that. I had a long-planned trip to Istanbul and Athens in regard to Cyprus. So it was not hard to come out here.

And we will be meeting with President Milosevic in about 2-1/2 hours or less. I'm not going to go into details of that meeting. I'm not going to go into details of what we are going to discuss with him. But I will express, as Ambassador Hill and Ambassador Miles have many times, our enormous concern about independent media. A free and independent press is an essential part of any democratic society. We can only react with the strongest feelings of concern and outrage when actions are taken which constrain it, and some of the people in the room are representing organizations which are not publishing right now. And that's a great concern to us.

I also want to point out that two Tanjug journalists were freed by the efforts of KVM. Those two men would be dead today if it were not for the efforts of Shaun Byrnes and Ambassador Walker and Ambassador Hill and Ambassador Miles. They would have been dead. And they are alive because of the efforts of the International Verification Team. That is our commitment to independent media, whether it's Serb or Albanian or Croat or Muslim, and we will do that for any journalist any time. But we cannot condone crackdowns on press freedoms. So that's why we are glad you came here today.

I'll be happy to answer any questions from any of you.

QUESTION: Would you discuss your meetings in Pristina?

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: We only had very little time in Pristina. I have already told you about the main meeting, which was with the Kosovo Verification Mission, which briefed us. We had time for brief meetings with two political journalist personalities, Blerim Shalla and Veton Suroi. Dr. Rugova and Dr. Agani were out of town, so we didn't have the chance to meet with them. We had very little time. The trip was just laid on at the last minute. But it was very useful.

QUESTION: Ambassador Holbrooke, how long will you tolerate the Albanian side resisting the direct negotiations with the Serb team?

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: I don't think that's the correct judgement of what Ambassador Hill is doing. Ambassador Hill is responsible for by far the most difficult part of this extraordinarily difficult problem, which is the political arrangements between the Albanians and the Serbs in this country. And the emergency -- the rampaging and pillaging of the Serb security forces this summer -- is not going on at this time, and the Kosovo Verification Mission is building up rapidly in order to bring some security and stability to the region, notwithstanding the problems that occurred yesterday. But what Chris Hill is doing is addressing the core problem, which all of you in this room understand -- viscerally and emotionally and politically -- and the way you phrase your question is already an editorial statement, which you are welcome to, but I don't accept the judgement. We have made progress. Very little, but progress in this sense. Ambassador Hill is now an interlocutor between Serbs and Albanians in an attempt to settle the political future. We are not going to go into the details. I don't happen to think any purpose is served by printing drafts or proposals, many of which are completely out of date, some of which never were anything more than . . .

AMBASSADOR HILL: By publishing drafts . . .

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: Yes, by publishing drafts or discussing their details. I read the other day in the paper that both sides have rejected his latest draft. That's fine, but that isn't exactly what happened. Chris is working toward a goal, and we are aware of the fact that at this point the drafts don't satisfy either side. That's what a negotiation is, and if they want to reject it that's fine. That's for your benefit. But we know what we are doing. We know where we are trying to go and you all know the immense difficulty of trying to get there. And the important thing to me is that both sides are engaged. Now, in the Albanian side they have a dilemma. They don't have a clearly delineated, legitimate government that has been elected through a fully free process that represents everyone. They had certain elections which other people dispute and they have a problem which is caused in my view by the history of the last decade, and therefore it's very difficult for the Albanians to move forward. We've been very frank about this. But on the basis of the trip Ambassador Miles and I just made, where everyone is waiting to see Ambassador Hill -- Chris was there yesterday; tomorrow we are going to Rome; he will see Italian Foreign Minister; and Thursday Chris is going to be back in Pristina -- and both sides are working on it, I don't accept your statement that anybody had rejected anything in a definitive manner. The problem is -- the real risk is -- that the security situation would deteriorate and adversely affect the political process, which is so difficult, and that is what we are most concerned about. I think Ambassador Hill's efforts have been extraordinary and will be pursued with the total support of the United States Government, President Clinton, Secretary Albright, and everyone else on down.

QUESTION: Sorry if I misunderstood, but my question was about direct negotiations between Serbs and Albanians and bringing them to the same table. How important that could be.

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: I understood your question. (Laughter.) I understood it. I didn't answer that part deliberately, because that's a tactical question. The two sides did have two face-to-face meetings -- on May 22 and then Rugova and team met with President Milosevic and then there was the second meeting in Pristina few days later. And then the talks broke down because of the security situation and the fighting that took place. When it is appropriate for there to be direct talks, there will be.

But I want to say something about Bosnia, which is, by the way, clear in this book. Direct talks never resulted in any progress in Dayton or in the field. It is the nature of the negotiation that outside people whose goal is to help the two sides close the gap will play a central role. There will certainly be direct talks sometime in the future. When is up to Ambassador Hill and up to the Albanians and up to the Yugoslav authorities. And they will decide. You may want to answer the question more specifically, if you wish.

AMBASSADOR HILL: I think you covered it. It's all right.

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: Good work.

QUESTION: Ambassador Holbrooke, you have been exposed to critics for dealing only with Milosevic, neglecting democratic institutions, opposition, and independent media. Will you change that attitude and do you see Mr. Milosevic as a trouble-maker or someone who is the guarantor of stability in the Balkans.

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: I don't believe any purpose is served by characterizations of a personal nature in the middle of extraordinarily sensitive and difficult negotiations. We've made our views clear repeatedly. I have made my own views clear, and I don't see any reason to get into that. We are here to address the specific problems of the region and we look forward to discussing them with President Milosevic. I'll let others address that question other times and other ways.

QUESTION: Ambassador Holbrooke, maybe that question should be put this way: Do you see any change in the official attitude of, let's say, State Department toward President Milosevic in the last 10 days or so, having in mind some very rough and tough statements about his personality?

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: I think the U.S. position has been consistent for a long time on this issue -- for several years. Our interests are in compliance, verification, stability, the full implementation of the Dayton Agreement, and getting this extraordinarily turbulent part of the world more stable. That's an important goal of all the NATO countries, all the European Union countries, Russia, and I don't see any change in that. People say different things at different times, but the policy is very clear and consistent and it hasn't changed in any fundamental way -- I stress the word fundamental, because you move around a little bit from time to time -- but there's been no fundamental change in the policy since Dayton and before.

QUESTION:Ambassador Holbrooke, are you satisfied with compliance of both sides with UN resolutions and national (inaudible)?

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: No. We're never satisfied. We're not satisfied in Bosnia. We're not satisfied here. That's why we're here. If we were satisfied, we wouldn't be sitting at this table today.

QUESTION: Can you be more specific?

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: No. I'll take that up with the President. I may have more to say after I've seen President Milosevic. This is not a real press conference. This is an informal meeting with an important group of people who represent an important part of the process, and that kind of issue. Let's talk to President Milosevic, and then see where we are.

QUESTION:Concerning the implementation of the Dayton Agreement you just mentioned, part of it has to do with the tribunal in The Hague, and we have recently heard from Milosevic, also other officials, that they don't have an intention to deliver any suspected war criminals to The Hague, and also 2 days from now there will be a hearing in the military court in Belgrade where the former JNA officers Sljivancanin, Mrksic, and Radic will be. They are invited there as witness. Is there any comment on that?

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: Chris.

AMBASSADOR HILL: Any comment on...?

QUESTION:The fact that Yugoslav authorities have not only refused to fully cooperate with the Tribunal, but now have refused despite going on with this process in the military court of Belgrade. They have started preliminary hearing, called Sljivancanin, Radic, and Mrksic as witnesses, despite The Hague's demand to stop this process, this hearing.

AMBASSADOR HILL: Our position has been really long-standing on cooperation with The Hague. We feel that The Hague Tribunal is the appropriate place for people who are accused of war crimes -- that it is the appropriate place, that it should be judged in The Hague.

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: We only have time for one more question, and then I think...

QUESTION: We are in shock since last night we've heard the latest news about the massacre in Pec. The whole Serbian nation is really engrieved because six innocent boys were killed. What's your reaction to that? I know that you're going to condemn the terrorism, but how are you going to prevent further massacres in Kosovo against Serbs. At this moment, as a Serb, I feel endangered, and my people in Kosovo are endangered at the moment.

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: Did you hear my answer on this?

QUESTION: No, I was a bit late. I am sorry.

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: You didn't hear my answer. Well, you should get it from the opening statement. I consider what happened at the Panda Bar in Pec outrageous, inexcusable. It's not clear exactly who did it or what the motives were, but whatever the motives were they are unacceptable and inexcusable, and there's no justification for it. Six teenage boys are dead, 15 people are wounded, I don't know how seriously, and, on the other hand, I don't think you need to feel any personal danger. I don't understand why you would think you are in personal danger here in Belgrade.

QUESTION: Not in Belgrade, but the people in Kosovo. .

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: But if you feel in danger, that's up to you. I don't think you ought to feel in personal danger. I think everyone in Kosovo -- Serb, Albanian alike -- can feel endangered when incidents like this happen, because they increase the tension. Now, our job was verification and compliance. We cannot prevent incidents of the sort. You can't prevent a person from walking in a bar in London or Paris or New York or Tokyo and doing this kind of thing. There's no such thing as 100% prevention, anywhere. But, for the first time, we have an international organization put there with the full agreement of the authorities of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia with the full authority to look into these incidents in detail. And just to repeat what I said before you got here: Both this incident and the other incident at the border with 31 Albanians killed we have had Kosovo verification people investigating. We have photographs with us of the dead Albanians at the border and of the prisoners who were taken. So we have an ability to find out what happened, which is much better than the United Nations' very slow responses in Bosnia in the early 1990s, and we're going to take this up at every level. This is the reason Ambassador Walker stayed in Pristina -- to keep working on this. But I will also repeat, again, the Serb demonstrations in Pec today against the KDOM and the OSCE Verification Mission are not appropriate. That is threatening to the lives of the international civilian people who have come in to verify the agreements, and that is a very unwise thing to do. That kind of demonstration sends a wrong signal.

QUESTION: It's probably very emotional in stress situation. What the reactions of your legal authorities would be if, for example, in the state of Texas some people asking for the autonomy of Texas?

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: You picked the wrong state, because the Texans are always asking for authonomy. We had a vote in Puerto Rico the day before yesterday. They were given a choice between independent statehood and commonwealth. That's the way we deal with these problems. They chose to remain in their present status. Had they chosen statehood, it would have created a different outcome. That is the answer to your question, and that kind of vote in Kosovo has not been made available to the people. So I would be very careful with the analogies in this kind of context. Now, an armed insurrection for secession was tried last century, and that didn't work out too well. But that was a different situation.

QUESTION: Mr. Holbrooke, sorry. That was the last question, but we have a lot of representatives here of the independent media. Will you offer anything to Mr. Milosevic in return to allow independent media to work free here?

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: What would you suggest?

QUESTION:There is no suggestion. Can you stop it or not? How can you stop it. It's impossible.

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: In the 2 months since I left, Ambassador Hill has not had a meeting with a senior Yugoslav or Serb official in which he has not raised this issue. He has not had one, and you all know that on the personal level my wife -- other than the fact that she regrets she can't be here -- has been doing everything she can also. And we did get your two Serb journalists out alive. And I guarantee you they wouldn't be out alive today if it weren't for the efforts of Chris [Hill] and Dick [Miles] and Bill Walker and so on. Again, we do everything we can on this issue. Americans don't run your country. We can't run your country. We have very strong views on the importance of independent media throughout the region.

And I want to tell those of you who sent me faxes and messages in October that I got your messages, and every message I got from those of you in this room and others was the same: "Don't bomb Yugoslavia, because it will help solidify the ultra-nationalists." We got a lot of faxes to that effect, and we got those messages. So we want to be sure you all know we heard those messages, and then as soon as we left there was a crackdown of the media. And we're well aware of that. We've spoken out on that many times.

Chris, you want to add anything? You can carry the ball on this one.

AMBASSADOR HILL: Absolutely it's an issue that we do indeed raise on every single occasion. Frankly it's another issue which will have to be solved if we're going to make progress in our ultimate effort.

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: We must excuse ourselves. We're way, way behind schedule. I'm very sorry.

QUESTION: You see some progress in Kosovo, but you don't see any progress concerning the independent media?

AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: It's more complicated then that. These are issues that you just keep at, you keep at. We're not going to let go of this issue. But we have to go. I hope you forgive us. My heart is with you, but our schedule is not. Thank you.

[End of Document]

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